VeggieBoards banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend of mine shared this video with me, which can get a little bit disgusting so you have been warned.<br><br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMG-LWyNcAs&feature=relmfu</a><br><br>
Anyway as I was watching this I was actually thinking how cruel it is that the caterpillar must be used to do the wasp's bidding and isn't that the same as what humans do to slaughterhouse animals (aka imprison them and make them do our bidding)? And to think that the wasp causes the caterpillar to starve to death in the process of doing so is not very pleasant. However it does so for the sake of its survival.<br><br>
I have always been on the fence when it comes to the question of whether eating animals itself is "wrong." I am vehemently against factory farm-raised animals but I'm not entirely sure what my stand is when it comes to "humanely-raised" animals (although some may argue that slaughtering them does not make it humane by default, but you know what I mean). And while I am perfectly aware that one can be completely healthy in a vegan diet, it is undoubtedly easier to get a complete set of essential nutrients if one ate animal products in small quantities (not in the excess that people consume them today). So in light of the natural behavior of parasites to ensure their survival in the best way possible, I am compelled to believe that the act of eating animals themselves is not necessarily wrong because it does make make human survival a lot easier--less worry on getting all the essential nutrients. Then again, if one extends this analogy, then even factory-farmed animals can be justified (although I really think the practices are more detrimental to the survival of our species than anything else so this is different from the wasp's case).<br><br>
Any thoughts on this?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,959 Posts
For our ancestors, and people today, that live completely off the land, without transportation, and certainly no stores, hunting can be a necessity. Survival depends on doing what you can to ensure that you see the next day. The wasp has no options. That's his survival.<br>
I recall reading how different the chemistry of predators and prey are when engaged in conflict. The chemicals emitted to the animal preyed upon are completely different in natural settings then in slaughterhouse, or being attacked by an animal other than it's usual predator.<br>
Humans have the means to change there nature. The lack of physical activity, the lack of fight or flight adrenaline, the temperature control that keeps our bodies relaxed. We've evolved from the need for meat.<br>
The idea of meat being an easier way to get nutrients is nothing more than the ignorance of our society. It took me over a year to fully appreciate how different veg*n diets are, and so sorry that they aren't mainstreamed.<br>
Look into vegetarian cultures from around the world-they have no problem with diet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
Like you and many others, I believe in some flexibility in ethics. I don't think that it makes sense to have a morality that is black and white. Life is more complex than that.<br><br>
So, I think it's wrong to eat animals in modern society because we don't need to eat animals and because doing so tends to cause tremendous harm to animals and the planet and even our own health. But I don't think that the act of eating animals was (or is) always wrong. For example, if I were shipwrecked on a deserted island and the only food source available was from an animal, then I might eat it rather than starve and I don't think doing so would be wrong.<br><br>
However, please be careful about using analogies to other animals in order to determine your morality. Many animals will eat their young or eat feces or rape the females or do any number of other things that human beings find morally repugnant. <b>We should not base our morality on other animals' behaviors, we should base our morality on our own capacity to empahthize, to reason, and to find compassionate alternatives to violence.</b>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,067 Posts
I don't really know why you first agree that using animals is largely a matter of convenience/ease rather than survival ("<i>And while I am perfectly aware that one can be completely healthy in a vegan diet</i>") but then go on to connect animal use with survival anyway.<br><br>
I think that as a vegan I am surviving pretty well*, so my reason for being a parasite would be "I wanna" rather than "I have to".<br><br>
"Making survival easier" could apply, say, to being able to order food from the Internet to your doorstep. That doesn't mean that being able to order food from the Internet to your doorstep is much of a necessity or has anything to do with what wasps or other organisms do in this world.<br><br><br><span style="font-size:xx-small;">*Actually, Gloria Gaynor recorded the song '<i>I Will Survive</i>' not as an ode to post-breakup life, but to prove her critics wrong when she was living a vegan lifestyle for a while**.<br>
**This statement may vary in truth value from 'not the case' to 'absolute bull****'.</span>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3035255"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't really know why you first agree that using animals is largely a matter of convenience/ease rather than survival ("<i>And while I am perfectly aware that one can be completely healthy in a vegan diet</i>") but then go on to connect animal use with survival anyway.</div>
</div>
<br>
What I mean is that vegans still do need to take vitamin B12 supplements whether they like it or not and it's in the interest of people to get them via eating a bit of meat once in a while.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>silva</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The idea of meat being an easier way to get nutrients is nothing more than the ignorance of our society. It took me over a year to fully appreciate how different veg*n diets are, and so sorry that they aren't mainstreamed.<br>
Look into vegetarian cultures from around the world-they have no problem with diet.</div>
</div>
<br>
So are you calling me ignorant? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"> Just kidding. Well, most vegetarian cultures do include eggs and milk and even though this is a vegetarian forum, I would like to know if there are any purely vegetarian/vegan cultures that thrive without eggs and milk and do not take Vitamin B12 supplements.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElaineV</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
However, please be careful about using analogies to other animals in order to determine your morality. Many animals will eat their young or eat feces or rape the females or do any number of other things that human beings find morally repugnant. We should not base our morality on other animals' behaviors, we should base our morality on our own capacity to empathize, to reason, and to find compassionate alternatives to violence.</div>
</div>
<br>
Hmm...interesting point. I didn't think about those other habits of animals. Thanks a lot!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElaineV</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3035223"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Like you and many others, I believe in some flexibility in ethics. I don't think that it makes sense to have a morality that is black and white. Life is more complex than that.<br><br>
So, I think it's wrong to eat animals in modern society because we don't need to eat animals and because doing so tends to cause tremendous harm to animals and the planet and even our own health. But I don't think that the act of eating animals was (or is) always wrong. For example, if I were shipwrecked on a deserted island and the only food source available was from an animal, then I might eat it rather than starve and I don't think doing so would be wrong.<br><br>
However, please be careful about using analogies to other animals in order to determine your morality. Many animals will eat their young or eat feces or rape the females or do any number of other things that human beings find morally repugnant. <b>We should not base our morality on other animals' behaviors, we should base our morality on our own capacity to empahthize, to reason, and to find compassionate alternatives to violence.</b></div>
</div>
<br>
This<br><br>
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,959 Posts
B12 is no more difficult to supplement than any other vitamin foods are routinely supplemented with!<br>
Take a lozenge, let it dissolve. Drink a couple cups of fortified soy or other non dairy milk, chew gum, eat fortified cereals... We do it with all kinds of vitamins, whether omni or veg*n.<br>
I see this argument much like many other transitions in human history. Whenever discoveries come about to change how people live, or affect their surroundings, there's always opposition feeling it's wrong, ineffective, or could be disatorous.<br>
Being vegan is like a human response to keep all the other f!!d up things people do to the environment in check. We've messed so much with animals habitats, and routinely kill them off for things as stupid as another golf course or cemetary!<br>
We need to eat animals as much as we need to run from predators or live in caves.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top