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Mufti's Rape Remarks, I am horrified by this, this makes me sick r/o***(Edit this post )<br><br>
Outrage at Mufti's Rape Remarks<br><br>
Australian sheik condemned for comparing 'unmodest' woman with meat<br><br>
Australia's highest Islamic cleric, Sheik Taj Din Al Hilaly has sparked outrage in Australia after a sermon in which he claimed women who failed to dress modestly were responsible for being raped and compared them to uncovered meat.<br><br>
The comments have been roundly condemned by Australian political leaders and media but even more telling, the mufti has been heavily criticized by some of the nation's leading Islamic bodies, a rare move in Australian-Islamic politics<br><br>
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New Act to Empower Indian Women.Speaking at a Ramadan sermon in Sydney last month which were first published and translated from Arabic by The Australian newspaper on Wednesday, Sheik Al Hilaly compared rape victims to abandoned meat<br><br>
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat," the mufti reportedly said.<br><br>
"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred."<br><br>
Shiek Al Hilaly also made reference to a series of vicious gang rapes by a gang of young Muslim men against white women in Sydney in 2000. Members of the gang received some of harshest sentences for rape in Australian history. The case strained relations between Muslims and non-Muslims at the time in Australia, especially in Sydney. There is still an underlying anger among many in Australia over the attacks, which once again came to a head in last year's Cronulla riots between Lebanese-Muslim and white Australian youths.<br><br>
"She is the one who takes her clothes off, cuts them short, acts flirtatious, puts on makeup, shows off, and goes on the streets acting silly. She is the one wearing a short dress, lifting it up, lowering it down, then a look, then a smile, then a word, then a greeting, then a word, then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay Jail, then comes a merciless judge who gives you 65 years," the Sheik said.<br><br>
Islamic leader were quick to denounce the mufti. The Islamic Council of New South Wales has condemned him. Spokesman Ali Roude claimed the mufti had "had failed both himself and the Muslim community."<br><br>
"While we respect the rights of any Australian citizen to freedom of speech, there is a further responsibility upon our civic leaders, be they religious, political or bureaucratic, to offer appropriate guidance to the people under their care," Mr Roude said.<br><br>
"The comments widely reported today do no such thing."<br><br>
Mr Roude also claimed the Sheik Al Hilaly had misrepresented Islam and had shown a misunderstanding of the subject of rape that was offensive to both men and women<br><br>
"As a father, brother and son myself, I take offense at the portrayal of both men and women in the alleged published comments," Mr Roude said.<br><br>
"Islam requires all people, men and women alike, to dress with modesty."<br><br>
"This is not to reduce the risk of sexual assault and rape, but rather to show respect for the God who created us all as equals and to show respect for ourselves as people who rise above the world of mere things and animals to stand as conscious beings in the presence of that same loving God - Allah Ta'ala."<br><br>
Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV) have called for the mufti to resign his position, with committee member Sherene Hassan telling Australian Associated Press (AAP): "Those comments are extremely offensive, and there is no basis for what he said in Islamic teachings." He added that there was "no justification for rape" and that the "ICV is issuing a statement calling for his resignation."<br><br>
Australian Sex Discrimation Commissioner Pru Goward has also weighed into the debate, calling on the mufti to leave his post. "Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man ... their leader in court," he said. "It's time we stopped just saying he should apologise. It is time the Islamic community did more then say they were horrified. I think it is time he left."<br><br>
Australian Prime Minister John Howard also expressed his disapproval at the mufti's remarks, dubbing the remarks as "appalling and reprehensible."<br><br>
"They are quite out of touch with contemporary values in Australia. The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous. I not only reject the comments, I condemn them unconditionally," Mr Howard told reporters.<br><br>
While refusing to be drawn into the debate about Sheik Al Hilaly's future, Mr. Howard did add, "But it is for me as prime minister to say I totally reject the notion that the way in which women dress and deport themselves can in any way be used as a semblance of justification for rape."<br><br>
Late Wednesday Sheik Al Hilaly who is believed to have taken ill, released a statement apologizing for the offense that his comments have caused but refused to back away from the comments he believes have been misinterpreted.<br><br>
"I unreservedly apologize to any woman who is offended by my comments," the sheik said in a statement.<br><br>
"I had only intended to protect women's honor, something lost in The Australian presentation of my talk."<br><br><a href="http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?art" target="_blank">http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...e_view.asp?art</a>
 

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This is just appalling on many levels. There's a sense outrage within me that a religious leader calls me nothing more than a "piece of uncovered meat" who deserves to be raped because I don't wear a headscarf. The half-hearted apology doesn't cut it, if you'd quoted it in full he apologised for women misunderstanding his comments, but held by the comments veracity.<br><br><br><br>
This kind of crap does <i>nothing</i> for religious tensions within the country. Is this man <i>trying</i> to incite more regilious/racial violence like we saw at Sutherland? This man is not stupid, he knows what he is doing and has pulled this sort of stunt in the past on more than one occasion. There are very few people I want to slap utterly senseless but this mufti is one of them.<br><br><br><br>
Ugh! I'm too disgusted and angry to post too much of a coherant, polite post about this so I'll leave my comments at that for the time being.
 

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The OP's link did not work for me.<br><br><br><br>
This one might work better:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=369328&no=325414&rel_no=1" target="_blank">http://english.ohmynews.com/articlev...25414&rel_no=1</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kiz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This kind of crap does <i>nothing</i> for religious tensions within the country. Is this man <i>trying</i> to incite more regilious/racial violence like we saw at Sutherland? This man is not stupid, he knows what he is doing and has pulled this sort of stunt in the past on more than one occasion.</div>
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The guy is a wanker no doubt about it. Even the muslim community find him an embarassment. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"><br><br><br><br>
The thing that's most sad about all of this is that this view about women isn't just confined to pockets of the muslim community. There are men from all kinds of backgrounds and cultures, that are still desperately clinging to the notion that women are to blame for the sexual violence that is perpetrated against them.
 

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This man enrages me, I can't believe in this day and age their are so many millions of women suffering because of a-holes like this guy, and the fact that he has tons of supporters I find utterly frightening.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/article_1215175.php/Australian_Muslims_rally_behind_cleric_who_defended_rape" target="_blank">http://news.monstersandcritics.com/a..._defended_rape</a>
 

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This guy should be deported.<br><br><br><br>
He is actually encouraging rape. He must HATE women.<br><br><br><br>
May his soul rot in hell whenever he gets there.
 

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I had a major arguement this evening about this with my friend, who is not muslim but is from a country were Islam is the major religion. (He agrees with the Mufti, but thinks the Mufti's comments were misunderstood because people don't understand Islam).<br><br><br><br>
Kind of makes me want to move to another planet.
 

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And where does Mohammed say white women deserve to be pack raped as he did last year? Where does it say in the Koran women are nothing more than pieces of "uncovered meat" who deserve to be sexually assualted? Where does Mohammed state that rapists are the victims and not the woman who was assaulted? Seriously Nutella, does you friend genuinely believe women deserve to be raped and we should feel sorry for the rapists?<br><br><br><br>
With this particular man I don't buy the "oh... it's a cultural difference, it's a language thing, he really meant we should all honour women". With someone else perhaps - people make mistakes and say one thing when they mean another, but this man has said <i>repeatedly</i>, on more than one occassion, that women deserve rape and it's the poor rapists we should feel sorry for.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kiz</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Seriously Nutella, does you friend genuinely believe women deserve to be raped and we should feel sorry for the rapists?<br></div>
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No.... he dosn't think that is what he thinks, but I told him that is what it sounded like to me.<br><br><br><br>
His view is that whilst there are some good men, there are a lot of bad ones - and if a woman walks down the street in a short skirt, then the bad ones wont be able to control themselves. So women need to protect themselves from the bad ones by covering up their bodies. He says this is what the Mufti meant, and this is typical of the views held by people from his country. He cannot understand that rape is not about sexual attraction, but about power and control and domination and hate.<br><br><br><br>
But I don't want to argue his point of view for him because I don't agree with him. And I am shocked to discover that someone I call my friend holds these views.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">because people don't understand Islam</div>
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I do. I understand Islam as it is obviously widely practised now is about discrimination. Discrimination of women and discrimination of other religions and even of other islam interpretations.<br><br><br><br>
Nutella is right. Discrimination in whatever form is about power and control. And so is rape.<br><br><br><br>
(This can be extended to lots of fundamentalists of any belief, btw...)<br><br><br><br>
I am very sorry for all the moderate muslims out there.
 

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It's not a good week for women in Australia. I'm a little stunned at the sexist crap Paul Keating spewed at the female journo that was hassling him about his involvement in granting permanent residency to the Sheik back in the 80's....what a ****head. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dizzy2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":dizzy:">
 

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I think radical Muslims (or radicals of any religion) like Mufti who blame women for rape and commit acts of terrorism in the name of religion are no better than brutal murderers, rapists, and child molesters.
 

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I thought these comments were made ages ago?<br><br><br><br>
I remember all these letters of support written to the newspaper. Something about how sex and child-birth hurts therefore being a woman sucks therefore it's ok to rape them. More articulate than that though.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
probably just angry cos they aren't getting laid.
 

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When I went to Morocco, which is a fairly moderate Islamic country, my friends and I made great attempts to uglify ourselves yet still received vulgar comments from many of the men. Most of the men didn't want to hurt us but it demonstrates the ignorance many men have about western women and our apparent promiscuity and dressing modestly isn't going to always protect you.<br><br><br><br>
Making women responsible for mens animalistic urges and feelings of inadequacy is completely ridiculous. They need to control themselves.
 

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Do these men not realize that not all women who are raped are 'scantly' dressed? This is the most pathetic justification I have ever heard. If a man can't take responsibility for his own actions and/or defends other men that can't control themselves, he is not a real man. I mean really, they need to grow up.
 

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I'm sorry, but you can't expect people from places where the cultural values regarding social interactions and sex are very different from western values, to have western values. Showering hateful accusations upon them is not in the least bit beneficial or worthwhile. In some cultures, men are not considered in control of their animalistic urges, and the "no means no" rule has lots of exceptions to it.<br><br><br><br>
No means no -- unless you can see part of the woman's face. If you can see a woman smile at you, you are not expected to control yourself.<br><br><br><br>
If you see a glimpse of underwear -- well it is totally ridiculous to expect a man to control himself in this situation.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>soilman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm sorry, but you can't expect people from places where the cultural values regarding social interactions and sex are very different from western values, to have western values. Showering hateful accusations upon them is not in the least bit beneficial or worthwhile. In some cultures, men are not considered in control of their animalistic urges, and the "no means no" rule has lots of exceptions to it.<br><br><br><br>
No means no -- unless you can see part of the woman's face. If you can see a woman smile at you, you are not expected to control yourself.<br><br><br><br>
If you see a glimpse of underwear -- well it is totally ridiculous to expect a man to control himself in this situation.</div>
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I don't think we can expect anything from anybody but I don't see why that matters...as far as being a woman and being upset over the treatment of women. We don't condone the objectification or eating of animals in any culture. We don't condone abuse. It is these men who are ridiculous.
 

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tell believing men to restrain their eyes and guard their private parts [if there are women present in these houses]. That is purer for them. And Allah is well aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to restrain their eyes and to guard their private parts and to display of their ornaments only those [which are worn on limbs] which are normally revealed and to draw their khumūr over their bosoms. They should not reveal their ornaments to anyone save their husbands or their fathers...Believers turn to Allah in repentance that you may prosper. (Qur'an , 24:27-31)<br><br><br><br>
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array (1 Timothy 2:9)<br><br><br><br>
whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Matthew 5:28)<br><br><br><br>
Just to show that Islam is not the culprit here, but one person's views some will disagree with. Please try to grow understanding of why Muslim women cover up - not show ignorance and anger.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>soilman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm sorry, but you can't expect people from places where the cultural values regarding social interactions and sex are very different from western values, to have western values.</div>
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The Mufti is an Australian citizen, living in Australia, and the rapists he felt sorry for (in earlier comments) were specifically targetting young, Australian "Western cultured" white women.
 
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