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Okay so im thinking about becoming vegan and i was talking to my mum about the fact that consuming dairy products is supporting the veal industry and about the terrible conditions of chickens (both that lay eggs and that are slaughtered) etc.<br><br>
She was then saying that for herself she will start buying organic milk and we already buy free range organic eggs anyway -<br><br>
I was saying its the whole principal of using the animals for milk and eggs anyway-<br><br>
but i was wondering what is the difference/if there is infact a significant difference between organic milk (apart from the milk itself ) , free range chickens. etc..im talk more about the conditions that the animals are in.<br><br><br><br>
thank you!!!!!!
 

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the animals <i>might</i> be treated a little better, but here's what stays the same as with conventional dairy and eggs:<br><br><br><br>
BOTH<br><br>
* The animals will still be killed and sold as cheap meat long before their normal life expectancy<br><br>
* They are still considered "commodities" for human use<br><br>
* The term "organic" has absolutely NOTHING to do with animal welfare. It is exclusively concerned with human health, and dictates that the animals be fed a specific kind of organic feed, and limits the use of medications and anti-biotics (which are commonly used in conventional farming applications).<br><br><br><br><br><br>
COWS<br><br>
* The female cows are still forcefully impregnanted<br><br>
* They will still have their babies taken away from them after hours or days. For many female cows this is a very painful experience, and they often yearn for their babies<br><br>
* It is likely the boy babies will killed for veal at a very young age. They will be deprived of their mother's milk and fed fluids that will prevent them from developing muscle tone etc.<br><br>
* If they aren't, or if they're female, they'll be killed before long anyway as cheap meat or re-enter the cycle as new milk producers.<br><br><br><br>
CHICKENS<br><br><br><br>
* Only female chickens (hens) lay eggs. Therefore whenever a group of chickens are hatched, only about 50% of the chickens born are useful for that purpose. Standard industry practise is to kill the male chicks immediately, often by crushing, suffocating or gassing them. <b>This cannot be avoided in any commercial operation. Even if you have a friend who has a few hens who are treated like pets, you have to ask, "Where are their brothers?"</b><br><br>
* "Free range" actually doesn't mean a whole lot in most commercial operations. From the Toronto Vegetarian Association's web site, veg.ca: <i>Generally speaking, free-range eggs come from chickens who have some access to the outside, but how much access? The U.S. regulates the use of the term on chicken but not on eggs, and doesn't stipulate how much outdoor time is required. Canada regulates neither. No other criteria, such as environmental quality, size of the outside area, number of birds, or space per bird, are included in this term. Typically, free-range hens are debeaked at the hatchery, and have only 1 to 2 square feet of floor space per bird. The birds may or may not have litter and access to nests and perches.<br><br></i><br><br>
* The egg-laying hens generally live a significantly shortened life, and are killed and sold as cheap meat when their productivity declines.
 

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Vegan about two years and a bit, vegetarian for nearly five. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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There are some sources on this thread, related to chickens:<br><br><a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=68399" target="_blank">http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...ad.php?t=68399</a>
 

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I noticed that you're an aussie <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> In addition to what you read here, it's worth doing your own research on this from an Australian perspective because our regulations and conditions differ somewhat from the U.S.
 

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Not that Canada is Australia, but I wasn't talking about the U.S. either. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> And if you just look at what's required to "make" these products, the same principles can be applied to any country. Regulations just mean maybe there's one less indignity that the animal faces out of many.
 

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Pauls Parmalat' make an organic milk you can get at Coles and Woolies and they claim that not only do they use organic farming practices but that their cows are looked after. To what extent I'm not sure however living with omni's I have no choice but to buy milk for them so I buy that one whenever I can. Jalna (for yoghurt) also make claims their cows are happy, but again I do not know to what extent. What it boils down to is what people have said above, that the babies are still ultimately removed from their mothers in order to use the milk for human consumption, I don't think males are sold for the veal industry but they are eventually sold if not used for breeding purposes.<br><br><br><br>
Chickens we also buy free range. There's a website: <a href="http://www.freerangecanberra.org/" target="_blank">http://www.freerangecanberra.org/</a> that has info and dinners and stuff. Apparantly PACE farms has a huge cage factory out near McGregor they are trying to get shut down before they buy new cages (which means they will be operating cage farming for another 10 years minimum) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 
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