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I am having an inner debate with myself. I am going back vegan after having a baby and would like the baby <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/baby.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":baby:"> to be vegan as well. However, there are no vegan formulas.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/shocked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":eek:"> There are soy, but I'm told that soybeans are grown with a high amount of chemicals and pesticides (I'm also going organic). There are no organic soy formulas (Baby's Only has one but the presence of DHA/ARA is questionable, they also make a supplement but it is derived from egg phospholipids or something). They say that they "don't like the way vegetarian sources of the fatty acids are derived" (does anyone know anything about THAT?)...<br><br><br><br>
So my question is, should I go for the non-organic soy or organic milk based until she's old enough to drink soymilk? Or should I get the Baby's Only Organic Soy and find another supplement that is vegetarian?<br><br><br><br>
Thanks in advance.
 

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Why not consider breastfeeding?<br><br><br><br>
Not only is it the food that nature intended for human babies, but it has several health benefits that formula does not have.<br><br><br><br>
If breastfeeding is not possible for you, look into a copy of "Becoming Vegan", it has some good advice about veganism in children.
 

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Definitely consider breast feeding as your first option. If you have concerns about your milk production, there are herbs you can take that help stimulate lactation.<br><br><br><br>
If I were forced to use formula for whatever reason, I would likely choose an organic dairy based formula over soy. Also, I've read recommendations that suggest waiting to introduce soy until the child is at least 2, to avoid the risk of developing soy allergies. I don't have a lot of information on that, but you may want to do some research before transitioning to soy milk.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Blue Plastic Straw</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Also, I've read recommendations that suggest waiting to introduce soy until the child is at least 2, to avoid the risk of developing soy allergies.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Tangent alert!<br><br><br><br>
I wonder at what age soy foods are given to children in the Orient.<br><br><br><br>
Would the data apply to non-East Asian children? ISTR that many ethnic groups (such as Europeans) tend to tolerate lactose better than the average H. Sapiens, due to milk being a large part of the culture's diet, and lactose-intolerant genes thus being a drawback. Maybe the same thing happens with soy intolerance. It could be just the opposite: no exposure to soy at a young age results in the body being more likely to reject it later. Kinda like how some people think that an overly clean environment leads to some forms of asthma.<br><br><br><br>
I'm not helping any, am I?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
that whole Orient thing just threw me off...now I'm second guessing my second guess....<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/undecided.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":-/"><br><br><br><br>
To those of you who have suggested breastfeeding, I am already past that. My dd is four months old, and breastfeeding was not successful. I b/c engorged and she was literally "drowning" in my milk, after awhile she just refused my nipple. I tried pumping and did that for awhile, but am not able to keep up with the vigorous pumping schedule. You have to pump every two hours which takes a half hour then you feed it to her for a half hour...by the time you do that its time to pump again... Not to mention that I have two other children (one who has special needs) and a husband. So instead of stress and beat myself up about it, I decided I'd rather have a healthy baby, and though bm is best, she can be just as healthy on formula. Right now she is on Enfamil which is milk based (I was lacto-ovo-veg), but now I want her to make the switch to soy. But I'm back to square one with that-I don't know if its more important for her to be on soy or to be on organic?
 

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Here's what <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Becoming Vegan</span> says:<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">If you stop breast-feeding or decrease the number of times that you breastfeed to less than three times a day, an iron-fortified commercial infant formula should be used as the replacement until your baby is at least one year of age. Many experts, including the Canadian Paediatric Society and Dietitians of Canada, recommend that vegans continue on breast milk or formula until they are at least two years of age. The rationale for using formula in the 12-24 month period is that commercial formulas are modeled after breast milk and thus include most of the nutrients provided by breast milk (with the exception of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids) in amounts that are especially suited to the growth and development needs of infants. Breast milk and formula contain the amino acids carnitine and taurine, which are not present in plant foods and may be beneficial for infants. These amino acids are produced from other amino acids in the body but the production appears to be reduced in infancy. If you do decide not to breast-feed or use formula during the 12-24 month period, fortified soymilk is your best alternative. It should contain calcium, vitamin B12, and vitamin D.<br><br><b>Unfortified nondairy beverages should not be used as a primary milk source for infants.</b> These milks will not provide the nutrients necessary for optimal growth and development and could lead to malnutrition, especially during the weaning period. Fortified nonsoy beverages contain minimal protein and are not generally recommended as primary milks during the second year of life.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
It also notes that breast-fed babies of vegan mothers should have a B12 suppliment (at least .3 mcg per day from the second week of life until at least 2 years of age, or until such time that enough B12 is provided by fortified foods). It also recommends 5 mcg vitamin D suppliments for breast-fed babies of vegan mothers.<br><br><br><br>
There's a sidebar that states the following:<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The only acceptable alternative to breast milk in infancy is commercial infant formula. Unfortunately, there are no formulas (that we can find) on the market today that are completely vegan. Several soy-based formulas are available; however, they all cointain vitamin D3 (animal-source vitamin D) and some varieties also contain animal fat. It is also of interest that soybeans used in infant formulas are not organic, and almost always come from genetically modified crops.<br><br>
DO NOT MAKE YOUR OWN INFANT FORMULA.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
PS: Amazon has a <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1570671036%2Fsr%3D8-1%2Fqid%3D1150735856%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_1%2F104-4069712-6855903%3F_encoding%3DUTF8" target="_blank">copy of 'Becoming Vegan'</a>.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
okay I get all that, all I want to know is...if it were you, would you choose<br><br><br><br>
a.) organic milk based formula<br><br><br><br>
or<br><br><br><br>
b.) non-organic soy formula<br><br><br><br>
Do you think its more important for the baby to get the pesticide/chemical free milk based formula or soy (because we'll be vegan) even though it is a heavily treated crop?<br><br><br><br>
p.s. Actually, Baby's Only has an organic soy formula (I'm guessing its fairly new) so even though its not vegan (b/c of the D3) it will probably be my best bet.
 

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Personally if it were me......and bf was not an option........i would give the milk based iron fort formula, one made from a major maker of formula, to ensure she gets the proper nutrients needed for growth in this important time. she can be vegan later, but for me i would choose the traditional iron fort formula, milk based.<br><br>
hands down they are the ones most closely resembling breastmilk.
 

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I would go with the milk based too.<br><br>
There is some evidence that soy based formula can have negative effects on boys. I know you have a daughter but I think I wouldn't take a chance with the hormones.<br><br>
Since neither is vegan anyway I don't see the difference from an ethical standpoint.<br><br>
Mary
 

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making your own formula can be safe as long as it is a non-vegan formula. home made formulas using milk and meat are safe and healthy (IMO, safer than commerical formulas).<br><br><br><br>
another alternative to use in tandem with commerical formula (i would avoid soy formulas personally, because they have some pretty intense long-term side effects for children, particularly reproductive side effects) is poi. i suggest looking up poi, made from taro and grown in hawaii.<br><br><br><br>
i'm sorry that you had trouble with BM.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zoebird</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
making your own formula can be safe as long as it is a non-vegan formula. home made formulas using milk and meat are safe and healthy (IMO, safer than commerical formulas)..</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
everything I've heard says that making your own formula is absolutely a bad idea. do you have a source?
 

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I would go with the Baby's Only formula, personally... pretty darn close to being vegan, and I think that the dangers of dairy outweigh those of soy. Soy has numerous benefits that dairy sure doesn't. None of the studies I've seen about the hormonal impacts of soy at a young age seemed well-based on fact... just IMHO. I was raised on soy formula and turned out normal enough. ;D Just check into the formula you choose and make sure that it's nutrionally what you're looking for/ adequate.
 

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To the OP: If you are using Enfamil, by all means, switch to organic!<br><br><br><br>
Here is a breakdown of the nutritional content of Poi which I would NOT suggest anyone use for thier newborn/infant's main source of nutrition!<br><br><br><br>
Nutrient Units Value per 100 grams of edible portion<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Water<br><br>
g<br><br>
71.64<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Energy<br><br>
kcal<br><br>
112<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Energy<br><br>
kj<br><br>
469<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Protein<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.38<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Total lipid (fat)<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.14<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Carbohydrate, by difference<br><br>
g<br><br>
27.23<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Fiber, total dietary<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.4<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Ash<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.61<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Minerals<br><br><br><br>
Calcium, Ca<br><br>
mg<br><br>
16<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Iron, Fe<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.88<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Magnesium, Mg<br><br>
mg<br><br>
24<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Phosphorus, P<br><br>
mg<br><br>
39<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Potassium, K<br><br>
mg<br><br>
183<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Sodium, Na<br><br>
mg<br><br>
12<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Zinc, Zn<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.22<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Copper, Cu<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.166<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Manganese, Mn<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.370<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Selenium, Se<br><br>
mcg<br><br>
0.7<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Vitamins<br><br><br><br>
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid<br><br>
mg<br><br>
4.0<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Thiamin<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.130<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Riboflavin<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.040<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Niacin<br><br>
mg<br><br>
1.100<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Pantothenic acid<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.293<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Vitamin B-6<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0.273<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Folate, total<br><br>
mcg<br><br>
21<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Folic acid<br><br>
mcg<br><br>
0<br><br><br><br>
Folate, food<br><br>
mcg<br><br>
21<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Folate, DFE<br><br>
mcg_DFE<br><br>
21<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Vitamin B-12<br><br>
mcg<br><br>
0.00<br><br>
0<br><br><br><br>
Vitamin A, IU<br><br>
IU<br><br>
20<br><br>
0<br><br><br><br>
Vitamin A, RE<br><br>
mcg_RE<br><br>
2<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Vitamin E<br><br>
mg_ATE<br><br>
0.180<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Lipids<br><br><br><br>
Fatty acids, total saturated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.029<br><br><br><br><br><br>
4:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
6:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
8:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
10:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
12:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
14:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
16:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.025<br><br><br><br><br><br>
18:0<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.004<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.011<br><br><br><br><br><br>
16:1 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
18:1 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.011<br><br><br><br><br><br>
20:1<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
22:1 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.058<br><br><br><br><br><br>
18:2 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.040<br><br><br><br><br><br>
18:3 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.018<br><br><br><br><br><br>
18:4<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
20:4 undifferentiated<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
20:5 n-3<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
22:5 n-3<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
22:6 n-3<br><br>
g<br><br>
0.000<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Cholesterol<br><br>
mg<br><br>
0
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>zoebird</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
making your own formula can be safe as long as it is a non-vegan formula. home made formulas using milk and meat are safe and healthy (IMO, safer than commerical formulas).<br><br><br><br>
another alternative to use in tandem with commerical formula (i would avoid soy formulas personally, because they have some pretty intense long-term side effects for children, particularly reproductive side effects) is poi. i suggest looking up poi, made from taro and grown in hawaii.<br><br><br><br>
i'm sorry that you had trouble with BM.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Zoe, I'm not attacking you but there is NO way making your own formula is healthy or safe. Babies can NOT tolerate meat (why would you even suggest that honestly??) and regular cows milk is actually way too low in iron for a baby. The baby can end up with anemia towards the end of their first year. Furthermore the proteins present in regular milk can increase the chances the baby will develop an allergy to dairy. Those proteins are broken down in formula.<br><br>
Formulas, both soy and milk based, are also fortified with vitamins and minerals that babies would find in breastmilk, now even with DHA, and their regular milk counterparts are not.<br><br>
I know you like to advocate a "natural" lifestyle but then push breastfeeding. Recommending a person make their own formula is a dangerous gamble and I think it's thoroughly irresponsible to do so.<br><br>
Mary
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Namaste2U</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
p.s. Actually, Baby's Only has an organic soy formula (I'm guessing its fairly new) so even though its not vegan (b/c of the D3) it will probably be my best bet.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
that's what was recommended to me
 

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My little sister's doctor told my mother to take her off of organic milk immediately, he was not happy at all to hear she was on it. He told her to try soy milk or soy formulas.
 

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I was raised on soy formula (I was lactose intolerant very young, and switched to regular milk around 2) and I am perfectly healthy.<br><br><br><br>
In my opinion, there are pesticides in the regular milk formula too - remember, the cow eats the grain which was raised with pesticides.<br><br><br><br>
I would not make your own formula.<br><br><br><br>
In the end, your daughter may choose for you. She may not tolerate one or the other. Don't stress about it - continue to pump some if you can, to mix breastmilk with the bottle milk - just to pass on your antibodies. But really, I think your baby is going to be fine with whatever you feed her. Don't worry! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>DelicGrape</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My little sister's doctor told my mother to take her off of organic milk immediately, he was not happy at all to hear she was on it. He told her to try soy milk or soy formulas.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Was there a specific reason why he was so upset about the organic?<br><br><br><br>
Schoska-I'm not in the UK (I'm in the US) and don't know if I can get that...can you order it online or do you have to get it from a "chemist" (is that the equiv. of a US pharmacy)? Would that mean you need an rx for it?<br><br><br><br>
Thanks everyone for your responses. I hope I wasn't too much of a pain, but I'm sure you all understand my need to have all the info I can get so I can decide what will be best for my child. My first two children used soy formula (Isomil) and they are fine. But back then I didn't know that soybeans were a heavily treated crop and I knew even less about all things organic...so in conclusion I think I'm going to go with Baby's Only...if I can have soy AND organic-why not? First, I guess I should order a can and see how she takes to it....<br><br><br><br>
Thanks again.
 
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