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Are you enjoying it? It's quite a controversial course. Personally I would have preferred social psychology with a helping of critical on the side, rather than full-on critical. There were times when I nearly threw the books out the window!

The project was really interesting to do though....
 

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@angie:
no one is asking you to be that extreme
just do what you can! chill! if the OP wants to buy cruelty free tampons than all the better for her! doing extra good deeds! You don't have to do that to be Vegan.
Remember, it's all about the non human animals and the environement, help them as much as you can, YOU DON'T HAVE TO do it. (i dont see any laws about it) It's like charity work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAGEV View Post

@angie:
no one is asking you to be that extreme
just do what you can! chill! if the OP wants to buy cruelty free tampons than all the better for her! doing extra good deeds! You don't have to do that to be Vegan.
Remember, it's all about the non human animals and the environement, help them as much as you can, YOU DON'T HAVE TO do it. (i dont see any laws about it) It's like charity work.
Yeah, I know
It's just that recently I have been thinking about my (long) journey to veganism, and was reminded why I had chosen to be a vegetarian and not vegan.

It is important to remember that this site is viewable to everyone - veg*ns and omnivores, and sometimes discussions about using vegan tampons, when viewed from a different perspective to ours, can seem extreme to the vast majority of inhabitants of the western world (but not the enlightened ones like us, of course
)
 

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I was skeptical, but I finally did try out a Diva cup and I like it so much better than tampons, but I use both, depending on which is more convenient in a situation. I probably use the cup about 75% of the time.
 

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A while ago I decided that my energy was better spent trying to encourage other people to eat a plant-based diet than taking my veganism farther than the basics of food and clothing.

Every now and then when I find a good alternative to something that's a teeny bit questionable then I consider changing. Like this issue wherein the tampons themselves are vegan, but if they're made by a company that tests on animals then a boycott of all the company's products may be warranted if a good alternative exists. So, for example, I might just stop using OB and start using a 7th Generation tampon instead. But that all depends on the cost and convenience. It's a rather trivial point, since the specific product is already vegan (as in not containing any animal products), so I'm not all that concerned.

On the other hand, if I can encourage just one person to stop eating animal products (or if I can convince 7 people to go vegan one day a week) then I've DOUBLED my impact as a vegan!!! So... that's where I spend the majority of my time and energy regarding my veganism.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarita Osita View Post

I see your point, but it could be argued that since there are options like pads (whose animal testing-ness I know nothing about), reusable pads, and menstrual cups, you don't need tampons.
I really DO need tampons.
It's the only fuss-free and sophisticated method of managing periods AFAIC. I know I'm probably going to get stirred-up by some of my male friends when they read this post, but I find pad-wearing to be disgusting. I really don't wanna walk around feeling blood leaking out of me and then having to sit with a damp and scrunched up piece of material in my knickers. I'm sorry, but that's way too unsophisticated for me.
And Diva cups are almost as bad - I want my menstrual flow to be absorbed, I don't want it sloshing around in liquid form in a cup between my legs.
 

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Haha. I don't feel any sloshing when I use my Diva Cup. I don't feel anything. And I like being able to see how much blood I've lost. I'd just recommend women give it a try.


Before I found the Diva Cup, I tried cloth pads and they are definitely NOT for me.
 

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Originally Posted by angie54321 View Post

I do have a unique perspective, as mentioned before: I was a vegetarian for 28 YEARS. I knew about veganism, sure. But I thought it was extreme. And I thought it was extreme because of the vegans I had met who didn't look, dress or act in any way normal. And who had strict views about what could and couldn't be eaten, worn and used. (BTW Werewolf Girl, I am not suggesting that YOU do this - but some vegans are very voluminous about the lengths they go to to avoid all animal products, or products tested on animals. And it is these people that I am addressing).

Nobody suggested that I could be 'almost vegan': oh no, it was full-on veganism, or nothing (or vegetarianism, with lots of dairy, which is the path I chose).

Now just think if I had gone vegan 29 years ago, how many more animals lives could have been saved. Take into account that my husband turned vegetarian because of me - would he have gone vegan if I was? Probably. Take into account that I have bought 3 children up as vegetarian. Would I have bought them up vegan - definitely. HOW MANY ANIMALS SUFFERED IN THOSE 28 YEARS BECAUSE I HAD COME ACROSS EXTREME VEGAN VIEWS? I dread to think. I really dread to think.
I apologize in advance if this sounds harsh. It's not at all personal and I hold no angry feelings towards you or anyone else in similar shoes. I'm just going to call it as I see it. I hope you're not offended by this.

Is it really fair to blame a few "extreme" vegans for your inaction? Why not blame yourself for not finding the moderate vegans earlier? You said the moderates helped you go vegan when you found them, so isn't it possible that the extreme vegans made you aware enough to seek out moderate vegans? Or Isn't it possible that you had a sort of blinder on and simply didn't really "see" the moderate vegans all around you until you started looking? Isn't it possible that the extreme vegans were meremy a convenient excuse for you to use until you were ready to go vegan? Isn't it farmore likely that your transition timeline had more to do with you than with outside influences? Or that if outside influences had a significant effect, isn't it more likely that the stronger forces were the anti-vegans, not the "extreme" vegans?

I'm all for a moderate approach. And i do believe that we're more effective at advocating veganism when we help people take the first step rather than when we expect them to take the last step. But what I cant stand is when people refuse to accept their own complicity in animal exploitation and blame others for it instead. Get real, get honest. It wasn't anyone else's fault that you didn't go vegan sooner. Take responsibility for your actions. Stop blaming others.

Here's the reality about animal advocacy: there are some strategies that are more effective than others, but few to none are counter-productive because in the long run we will win. Animal rights is fair, just, and right. Moreover, they're self-evident. Truth and justice will persevere regardless of any inefficient use advocates' time and resources.

So, we should strive to compel animal advocates to be more effective, but we can't rightly blame them for thngs they haven't done.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blugirl400 View Post

I'm not willing to try anything other than tampons such as diva cups or reusable pads. I'm about at my wit's end and ready to throw in the towel and say sorry on this one. Any suggestions?.
This seems like the main issue that is limiting you, not veganism. Why are u not willing to try diva/moon cups?
 

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Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

I apologize in advance if this sounds harsh. It's not at all personal and I hold no angry feelings towards you or anyone else in similar shoes. I'm just going to call it as I see it. I hope you're not offended by this.

Is it really fair to blame a few "extreme" vegans for your inaction? Why not blame yourself for not finding the moderate vegans earlier? You said the moderates helped you go vegan when you found them, so isn't it possible that the extreme vegans made you aware enough to seek out moderate vegans? Or Isn't it possible that you had a sort of blinder on and simply didn't really "see" the moderate vegans all around you until you started looking? Isn't it possible that the extreme vegans were meremy a convenient excuse for you to use until you were ready to go vegan? Isn't it farmore likely that your transition timeline had more to do with you than with outside influences? Or that if outside influences had a significant effect, isn't it more likely that the stronger forces were the anti-vegans, not the "extreme" vegans?

I'm all for a moderate approach. And i do believe that we're more effective at advocating veganism when we help people take the first step rather than when we expect them to take the last step. But what I cant stand is when people refuse to accept their own complicity in animal exploitation and blame others for it instead. Get real, get honest. It wasn't anyone else's fault that you didn't go vegan sooner. Take responsibility for your actions. Stop blaming others.

Here's the reality about animal advocacy: there are some strategies that are more effective than others, but few to none are counter-productive because in the long run we will win. Animal rights is fair, just, and right. Moreover, they're self-evident. Truth and justice will persevere regardless of any inefficient use advocates' time and resources.

So, we should strive to compel animal advocates to be more effective, but we can't rightly blame them for thngs they haven't done.
To put my story in perspective, it was nearly 30 years ago. I didn't know any other vegetarians. The few vegans I had bumped into were extreme*. YES, of course i could have gone on and searched for others to see if there were more moderate vegans. But this was long before the internet. I didn't live in a big city. I didn't mix with loads of people. I didn't know there were moderate vegans out there. My family were the only vegetarians I knew.

I do think that once I became established in my vegetarian identity, I stopped looking. I didn't read about animal rights or animal welfare, didn't seek out others who felt the same (although I was a member of the Vegetarian Society and the British Union for the Abolition of Vivesection for many years). So I didn't make an effort to find other vegetarians or vegans. I didn't need them.

And when I started my project, I started it with the belief that my vegetarian identity would be confirmed. I was wrong. I had been wrong all those years, and not known it. A very uncomfortable feeling, as I am sure you can imagine. But in my defense, I never realised that dairy cows lived such horrendous lives. I didn't seek out the information (my fault) but by the same token, nobody gave me that information either.

One of the quotes I used in my uni project was 'Once you know, you can't not know'. That sums it up for me - once I knew, I couldn't forget, and I did something about it.

I agree that different approaches suit different people; some people will like the abolishionist approach, others will like the health approach, others the animal welfare...there is no one way. My argument is that those with extremist views are more vocal, and that may put off those who want to be moderate - who maybe don't even want to be vegan but will willingly eat less meat, fish and dairy every day.

In one of the other threads, (Stupid Things Omnivores Say) someone was asked 'when are you getting your vegan tyres?'. And that is what some people think of vegans because of the extremist views being more vocal than others - that we ALL take things to the extremes of examining every single object in our lives.

I agree that I was unconsciously complicit in my lack of knowledge about veganism and moderate vegans. But once I knew - I changed.

* From memory, I was accosted several times by vegans getting signatures on petitions for viviesection charities, and animal charities like the League Against Cruel Sports. When I blithely announced that, yes I would sign their petitions, and that I was a vegetarian, I was made to feel like a piece of s**t for not being a vegan. This happened 2 or 3 times in a relatively short space of time. And no, they didn't sit me down and talk to me why about why they were vegan. They verbally abused me instead.
 

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Wow, my post got a lot of replies. After careful deliberation, I have decided to stay with the tampons I find most comfortable. The only reason I was seriously considering changing was because I am interning at Farm Sanctuary and I know I am supposed to use only cruelty free products. Periods, for me, are very uncomfortable and I am not going to be incredibly uncomfortable for vegan purity. Someone said my main problem was not being open to other options, such as the diva cup. I find the idea disgusting (sorry for anyone who uses one I admit I could be wrong). I'll stick to what I use and hope Farm Sanctuary will not kick me out. I do not eat animal products and I try to buy cruelty free products when I can stand the alternatives. This is the best I can do right now and it is much more than the majority of society is willing to do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blugirl400 View Post

Wow, my post got a lot of replies. After careful deliberation, I have decided to stay with the tampons I find most comfortable. The only reason I was seriously considering changing was because I am interning at Farm Sanctuary and I know I am supposed to use only cruelty free products. Periods, for me, are very uncomfortable and I am not going to be incredibly uncomfortable for vegan purity. Someone said my main problem was not being open to other options, such as the diva cup. I find the idea disgusting (sorry for anyone who uses one I admit I could be wrong). I'll stick to what I use and hope Farm Sanctuary will not kick me out. I do not eat animal products and I try to buy cruelty free products when I can stand the alternatives. This is the best I can do right now and it is much more than the majority of society is willing to do.
California or New York?
I don't know about things in NY first hand, but in CA, if the conversation were to come up, they would suggest to you some vegan brands, but leave it at that. They don't go searching through your belongings ready to confiscate the non-vegan items and kick you out. Same for shampoo/soap/etc.
It's pretty much reliant on trust. In the intern information sheet that was sent with the contract after you are accepted mentions things like medications, while not vegan, are ok because, well, they're meds. It's never possible to be completely vegan with absolutely no faults.

If you'd rather stick with ob or Always or Tampax or whatever, I'm sure it's fine. Same with razors. There are very few vegan ones, and if you use them any they aren't vegan, they're not going to kick you to the curb.
(Unless, you know, you're hanging out with the cattle while shoveling down a hamburger.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blugirl400 View Post

Wow, my post got a lot of replies. After careful deliberation, I have decided to stay with the tampons I find most comfortable. The only reason I was seriously considering changing was because I am interning at Farm Sanctuary and I know I am supposed to use only cruelty free products. Periods, for me, are very uncomfortable and I am not going to be incredibly uncomfortable for vegan purity. Someone said my main problem was not being open to other options, such as the diva cup. I find the idea disgusting (sorry for anyone who uses one I admit I could be wrong). I'll stick to what I use and hope Farm Sanctuary will not kick me out. I do not eat animal products and I try to buy cruelty free products when I can stand the alternatives. This is the best I can do right now and it is much more than the majority of society is willing to do.
It sounds like you're doing everything you can! I don't think there's any convincing reason to believe that tampons contribute to animal cruelty. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't compute for me. Does everyone make sure their toilet paper isn't tested on animals too? I don't.

The Diva cup is great, but there is a learning curve and it doesn't work for everyone (either due to body/period comfort-level, or anatomy). It definitely does require getting up close and personal with things. For me, it also takes a lot more time than using a tampon or pad.
 

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For anyone interested in the UK I emailed lil lets and got the reply that they don't test on animals (I couldn't find anything online to contradict this either). Also, own-brand tampons by supermarkets/pharmacies that don't test on animals (sainsbirys, I don't know is superdrug do their own but them if so, boots perhaps - I don't know their animal testing policy) would be another option - however I've found that sainsburys tampons actually came apart whilst in use, only once, but that was once enough! :/ I don't know if this is common, but it's put me off anyway.

I have bought both lil lets and sainsburys before - tampax always seemed to make their tampons seem unnessersairily complex if you ask me!
 

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FWIW, the menstrual cups are awesome and have revolutionized my periods for the better. I often forget that I am menstruating now, and they leak a lot less than tampons for me. I strongly encourage everybody to give them a chance, even though the idea sounds weird.
 

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I suppose that depends how you define vegan.
You prevent the largest amount of suffering by not eating chicken or eggs, and then by not eating pork or dairy, and then cows or other animals. The dietary choices spare the most animal suffering because 99% of animal suffering is food related. Things like fur and animal testing account for less than the remaining 1% yearly.

It depends on the goal of your veganism. Mine is not about personal purity but reducing suffering where I realistically can. I'm not a female and don't have to worry about this specific hygiene product, but if your only option is one tested on animals, then use that one. Again, it depends on your goal. Mine is not to be as "pure" or "vegan" as possible but to starve the most cruel industries existing of their funds. If you took a certain definition of "vegan" to its logical conclusion you wouldn't be able to develop film, drive a car or eat granulated sugar for fear of contributing to animal suffering in some way. But if you put things into perspective and realize this war against speciesism is won a step at a time, generationally, you'll be spared a lot of headaches and extra expenses and will have more time and energy to enjoy your life and hopefully become involved in animal advocacy of some kind, or if you already are that's great! It'll mean more time, money and energy to do more of that or to do it better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dormouse View Post

FWIW, the menstrual cups are awesome and have revolutionized my periods for the better. I often forget that I am menstruating now, and they leak a lot less than tampons for me. I strongly encourage everybody to give them a chance, even though the idea sounds weird.
+1
Totally agree, can't judge it until you've tried it yourself. I luv not having to keep wasting $$ on tampons, the box in my bathroom will probably last 5 years!
 
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