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Wow, I think I might take a trek up there just to see it lol!
Although the two members of public who gave they're opinions were not your typical Merthyr residents, I expect there was too much censoring to be done with the rest!
 

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'Durr I eat meat and I dun think these here vegetarians shud be talkin bad bout the meat yurrrr, I dun got nothin gainst dem but dun be talkin bad bout da meat.'

Seriously? The 'meat eater by choice' line is such a false construction it's hard to believe anyone still says it. If the advertising standards agency slaps PETA on the wrist though that's a whole heap of bull****. Those Christian ads all over the place are ok, but when any other belief is publicly displayed it gets slapped down.
 

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Originally Posted by Kappa View Post

'Durr I eat meat and I dun think these here vegetarians shud be talkin bad bout the meat yurrrr, I dun got nothin gainst dem but dun be talkin bad bout da meat.'

Seriously? The 'meat eater by choice' line is such a false construction it's hard to believe anyone still says it. If the advertising standards agency slaps PETA on the wrist though that's a whole heap of bull****. Those Christian ads all over the place are ok, but when any other belief is publicly displayed it gets slapped down.
Well it's bull**** to ban the ad because it's in "poor taste" or upsets meat sellers, but it's also untrue and ridiculous advertising. I would love it if PETA ads were all pulled tbh so they can stop this stupid crap that makes us as a group look stupid and attention seeking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

Well it's bull**** to ban the ad because it's in "poor taste" or upsets meat sellers, but it's also untrue and ridiculous advertising. I would love it if PETA ads were all pulled tbh so they can stop this stupid crap that makes us as a group look stupid and attention seeking.
The problem is that normal ads requesting that people cut down a little of their meat consumption are easily ignored. Like them or hate them, the controversial PETA ads do get people talking. The 'softly softly' approach doesn't work on people who want to ignore it. If PETA's ad had said that giving your children too much meat is bad for their health, the general public and the meat industry would reply 'everything in moderation' and the public would be led to believe that consuming meat 3 times a day IS moderation (after all, where else would you get your protein, hey?!). And it certainly wouldn't have featured on the BBC news, and reported on in newspapers.

I'm not saying I agree with PETA ads. I find many of them make me cringe. But I think we have to be aware that anything that gets people talking about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet, or of the animal rights issues concerned, is a good thing. And we have to be aware that different approaches suit a different audience: some people will go to the PETA site after reading that ad.

PETA campaigns remind me of a t-shirt I had in my 'radical' days: from the BUAV, it had a very clear photo of a dog with its head in a vice, been experimented on. It wasn't a comfortable photo to look at - wearing it, I could see the reactions on people's faces when they looked at it. But it made people comment, which gave me the chance to discuss animal experimentation. If my responses made just ONE person think, it was worth it.

Because different approaches suit different people, I think we need to be less judgemental about the approaches that we don't find personally appealing, and appreciate that some people will take action because of them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by angie54321 View Post

I'm not saying I agree with PETA ads. I find many of them make me cringe. But I think we have to be aware that anything that gets people talking about the health benefits of a vegetarian diet, or of the animal rights issues concerned, is a good thing. And we have to be aware that different approaches suit a different audience: some people will go to the PETA site after reading that ad.

PETA campaigns remind me of a t-shirt I had in my 'radical' days: from the BUAV, it had a very clear photo of a dog with its head in a vice, been experimented on. It wasn't a comfortable photo to look at - wearing it, I could see the reactions on people's faces when they looked at it. But it made people comment, which gave me the chance to discuss animal experimentation. If my responses made just ONE person think, it was worth it.
I disagree. I don't buy the "any publicity is good publicity" rubbish. These ads get most people talking about how stupid and crazy PETA are and how preachy and pushy vegetarians are. These ads will also not change people's minds who think that it is veg*n diets that are badly balanced and don't provide the right nutrients. If your T-shirt made 50 people think "ugh, these animal rights nutters" and one person think "oh poor dog, I should look into vivisection and maybe will stop buying products tested on animals" have you done more net good or harm for veg*nism? I think we will disagree on the answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

I disagree. I don't buy the "any publicity is good publicity" rubbish. These ads get most people talking about how stupid and crazy PETA are and how preachy and pushy vegetarians are. These ads will also not change people's minds who think that it is veg*n diets that are badly balanced and don't provide the right nutrients. If your T-shirt made 50 people think "ugh, these animal rights nutters" and one person think "oh poor dog, I should look into vivisection and maybe will stop buying products tested on animals" have you done more net good or harm for veg*nism? I think we will disagree on the answer.
Yes, my t-shirt may have made 50 people think animal rights people are nutters: but then those people already did, before seeing my t-shirt. They formed that opinion because anyone who thinks differently is wrong. And they don't think. They haven't thought about the issues. They have just followed their societies norms. There are always going to be people who think that even cutting down on meat a little bit is too extreme (the 'People Eating Tasty Animals' brigade).

If someone starts talking to you about how crazy PETA are you have a choice: to prove their point or to give them an alternative view of vegetarians with your calm and rational explanations. So the point I am making is it started a conversation that otherwise may not have been started. Which has to be a good thing.
 

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I disagree again. I used to think vegans and animal rights activists were stupid, extreme and crazy. Clearly I was not a 'People Eating Tasty Animals' person, I was a potential vegan right there. It took me knowing a calm, rational, non-confrontational vegan to consider the matter clearly and decide to go vegetarian. No PETA ad would ever have made me consider it because all I could see, just as it's all I can see now, was the logic fails, desperation and craziness of their marketing team.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

I disagree again. I used to think vegans and animal rights activists were stupid, extreme and crazy. Clearly I was not a 'People Eating Tasty Animals' person, I was a potential vegan right there. It took me knowing a calm, rational, non-confrontational vegan to consider the matter clearly and decide to go vegetarian. No PETA ad would ever have made me consider it because all I could see, just as it's all I can see now, was the logic fails, desperation and craziness of their marketing team.
But my point is that different approaches suit different people. A calm rational non-confrontational vegan would convert me too: but a calm, rational non-confrontational vegan will also be dismissed easily by some.
What works for you (and me, and lots of other people) doesn't necessarily work for everyone.

To quote Irazary, on another thread (http://www.veggieboards.com/newvb/sh...nimal-Research - post #24)

"...it takes a diversity of strategies to make a successful movement."
 

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Sure, but I think some strategies turn so many people away, or further away, from veg*nism that they do more harm than good.
 

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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

Sure, but I think some strategies turn so many people away, or further away, from veg*nism that they do more harm than good.
Agreed. There is a thin line between 'thought provoking' and turning people away, and I think we all draw the line at different points.

If as an omnivore, I had come across the PETA ads, I fairly sure I would have investigated what they were shouting about - if only in an effort at first to refute their arguments. That would have led me to their more rational and evidence based information.

We are receptive to different arguments at different times of our life. To just stick to one method, because it is the method that appeals to us, limits the appeal to people who are not like us.

There is no simple answer to this - I wish there was a definitive one, it would make our lives a lot easier
 

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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

Well it's bull**** to ban the ad because it's in "poor taste" or upsets meat sellers, but it's also untrue and ridiculous advertising.
I agree with this, I'd be annoyed if I saw this ad up.

I don't believe that there's substantial evidance to prove that eating meat is unhealthy by default, or that by being vegetarian you are nessersairily healthier (statistically vegetarians might get less of certain diseases but that doesn't mean being vegetarian makes you healthier) and moreover I don't agree that "eating meat will make you slimmer" (in response to the 'fight the fat' bit) is actually a meaningful argument for vegetarianism.

From a "how affective is this" standpoint, I'm not sure that attacking the public by calling them child abusers (or saying their parents abused them) is really going to make them receptive to ideas about vegetarianism. If it was me, and I wasn't vegetarian, I'd just become defensive since the message is so attacking.

All in all, I don't agree with the argument nor the way it's been put forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think there is plenty of evidence that eating meat is unhealthy in the amounts that it is consumed in the Western world. Years ago, people had a small amount of meat, and it was a luxury - almost the side dish. These days, for many people it is the reverse - the meat is the main part of the meal.

Out of interest, what would the advert have to say to make you receptive?
 

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LOL I'm not going to lie, sometimes I love PETA.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by angie54321 View Post

I think there is plenty of evidence that eating meat is unhealthy in the amounts that it is consumed in the Western world. Years ago, people had a small amount of meat, and it was a luxury - almost the side dish. These days, for many people it is the reverse - the meat is the main part of the meal.

Out of interest, what would the advert have to say to make you receptive?
I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean eating meat is unhealthy by default and it doesn't meat feeding your children meat is bad for them. Feading your children burgers, chips, pizza and turkey twizzlers every day is unhealthy, but so is feeding your child chips crisps and icecream. Is eating a healthy balanced diet with small amounts of lean meat or fish in it unhealthy, likley to cause weightgain or "child abuse"? As far as I can see, there isn't persuasive evidance for that no.

An advert that didn't offend me might be a start
maybe even a fact or two thrown in there if we're feeling crazy. I realise I'm hardly their target market - but I'd rather someone try to persuade me by communicating with me as if I am a sensible, intelligent adult. I'm not sure calling most of society child abusers really does that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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Originally Posted by Identity_thief View Post

I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean eating meat is unhealthy by default and it doesn't meat feeding your children meat is bad for them. Feading your children burgers, chips, pizza and turkey twizzlers every day is unhealthy, but so is feeding your child chips crisps and icecream. Is eating a healthy balanced diet with small amounts of lean meat or fish in it unhealthy, likley to cause weightgain or "child abuse"? As far as I can see, there isn't persuasive evidance for that no.

An advert that didn't offend me might be a start
maybe even a fact or two thrown in there if we're feeling crazy. I realise I'm hardly their target market - but I'd rather someone try to persuade me by communicating with me as if I am a sensible, intelligent adult. I'm not sure calling most of society child abusers really does that.
I agree that small amounts of meat/fish in a balanced diet are unlikely to cause health problems - but how many people do you know who actually eat small amounts? Everyone I know (who isn't a veggie, obviously!) consumes animal flesh at least twice a day. Add dairy to that (another 2+ times a day) and it adds up to a large amount of animal products.

I wasn't trying to be awkward by asking how you think the advert should be worded - I am interested in the messages that appeal to different people. What 'message' made you a veg*n? (For me, it was the rational but sometimes emotional narrative in Peter Singer's book, Animal Liberation)
 

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Yes of course lots of people eat large amounts of meat, and large amounts of particularlly unhealthy meats. But that doesn't justify saying things that aren't actually true on billboards.

My problem isn't discouraging people to eat meat, my problem is telling people that "meat" and all it encompasses is unhealthy because a)(most importantly) purposefully misinforming the public is unethical, b) a lot of people will realise it isn't true, and will dismiss the point it's trying to make.

The ad could have said true statments linking reduction/elimination of meat/animal products to good health, long live-span or lack of particular dieseases... so why make an overly simplistic statment that just isn't true?

I don't remember now, it was an accumulation of lots of different things over a period of time. I initally became vegetarian at 11 just because I thought killing animals was wrong, so I shouldn't be eating them. Over the next few years what spoke to me most, and what I found the most persuasive, were intelligent arguments about WHY animals deserve rights. Arguments that talked about what makes animals/humans different, what makes them alike, why eating/using animal products was unnessersairy, etc.

The sort of emotive, shock-provoking, simplistic and often base arguments I found peta often promoted, I just found crass and tasteless and completley unconvincing. I get that they actually work for a lot of people, but not for me, and I think that if we treat people as if they're too stupid to understand reason, logic and intelligent argument it's just an insult to them.
 

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Child abuse brings to mind bruises, sexual assault, rejection, and neglect. Serious, disturbing things that should never be treated lightly.
We live in a society that accepts meat. Some reject that idea, but the vast majority see nothing wrong with raising animals for food. Like it or not, that's the reality. To judge, like what? 90% of people? as being okay with "child abuse" is crazy!
When people truly act on what they believe is the best for children, and the majority perfectly agree, it's wrong and counter productive to lump them in a group of the most reprehensible offenders.
I wanted to puke when I saw the meat being cut by that butcher, but I agreed with him. I felt bad for him too, and I'm afraid this type of promotion is exactly what seperates meat eaters from being fine with veg*ns (as he said he is) to thinking they're all a bunch of wackos whose ideas of right and wrong can't be trusted.
The older I get, the more I see that calm and rationale examples beat out loud and abrasive stereotypes any day. I've gotten more people interested, and eating more plant based meals now then the in your face veg*n I was in my youth. The one who didn't last.
When people complain about veg*ns being unrelenting and obnoxious I tell them to ask how long they've been veg*n, because I find the ones most obnoxious haven't lived it long enough to understand what it takes for people to understand. Calling people names and acting like bullies doesn't change minds.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

Sure, but I think some strategies turn so many people away, or further away, from veg*nism that they do more harm than good.
I agree with this... I think that PETA do more harm than good (as well as resorting to the objectification of women in their advertising and anti-fat campaigns, yuck). They're almost like a joke in themselves, people don't take them seriously. I'm not saying they haven't raised the profile of animal rights... They have. That doesn't mean however, that they have done the movement any good...

Saying that, most branches of the media are run with a sexist, meat eating, capitalist agenda, so any sensible campaign would be less likely to get the limelight.
 
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