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I'm looking for a new car. I am finding that so many come with leather seats which of course I am adamant I dont want, however I am finding that many even with clothe seats still have leather covered steering wheels and gear shifts. Its seems very hard to avoid this. I just dont know if I should totally rule out a car because of it. Also I think I am mostly decided on the chevy cruze eco if anyone has an opinion. Its such a tough choice. Thanks.
 

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The Cruze LS and Eco both appear to not contain any leather (from checking out Chevy's website). I agree that it is difficult to find cars without leather and when you are talking about more expensive cars, it is impossible. I don't get why leather is considered such a luxury item. It's burning hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter. I never wanted leather even before going veg.<br><br>
The Cruze is a nice looking car, but costing $20,000 puts it in a league where you could choose a Honda or Toyota. I have owned many American cars and a few foreign cars. The American cars gave me a lot more trouble than any of the foreign ones. However, the car magazines say the American companies have caught up with the competition and some even say they are now even higher quality than foreign companies. But only time will tell if that's true.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sleepydvdr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047198"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The Cruze is a nice looking car, but costing $20,000 puts it in a league where you could choose a Honda or Toyota. I have owned many American cars and a few foreign cars. The American cars gave me a lot more trouble than any of the foreign ones. However, the car magazines say the American companies have caught up with the competition and some even say they are now even higher quality than foreign companies. But only time will tell if that's true.</div>
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i work for a rental car company and our cars are put through hell and back they avg 30,000+ miles being put on them in a matter of 6 months or so and i have to say that we have more trouble now with the foreign cars than the domestic cars. that plus buying domestic saves more american jobs than buying foriegn its a win win win
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, I do hear a lot of conflicting info about chevy as a brand, but I do much prefer the new chevy over the new Honda. I havent looked very seriously at toyota. The cruze does have a leather wrapped steering wheel and I think possibly a gear shift. I did talk to them about possibly switching it out for one from another car, but I think they may think I am crazy. Most people find it very odd that I tell them the #1 car thing I am looking for is not leather. Only 1 person got it right and asked if I was a vegetarian. On a side note though, did you know the jetta's have heated clothe seats, I always thought this was only available in leather. And in case you didnt know Acura only makes new cars with leather these days.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jaynesh</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047700"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yes, I do hear a lot of conflicting info about chevy as a brand, but I do much prefer the new chevy over the new Honda. I havent looked very seriously at toyota. The cruze does have a leather wrapped steering wheel and I think possibly a gear shift. I did talk to them about possibly switching it out for one from another car, but I think they may think I am crazy. Most people find it very odd that I tell them the #1 car thing I am looking for is not leather. Only 1 person got it right and asked if I was a vegetarian. On a side note though, did you know the jetta's have heated clothe seats, I always thought this was only available in leather. And in case you didnt know Acura only makes new cars with leather these days.</div>
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Salespeople are desperate to make a sell and will kiss your ass to do so. If they can get it changed out, they will. That is, if you ask before signing anything. Once you sign some paperwork, they won't care about you at all.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hotdish</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047575"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
<snip> that plus buying domestic saves more american jobs than buying foriegn its a win win win</div>
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My "foreign" car was made in a zero landfill plant in Indiana.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jaynesh</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047700"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yes, I do hear a lot of conflicting info about chevy as a brand, but I do much prefer the new chevy over the new Honda. I havent looked very seriously at toyota. The cruze does have a leather wrapped steering wheel and I think possibly a gear shift. I did talk to them about possibly switching it out for one from another car, but I think they may think I am crazy. Most people find it very odd that I tell them the #1 car thing I am looking for is not leather. Only 1 person got it right and asked if I was a vegetarian. On a side note though, did you know the jetta's have heated clothe seats, I always thought this was only available in leather. And in case you didnt know Acura only makes new cars with leather these days.</div>
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What is your price range? What style of car do you want? There are a lot of options. I think the lower-end models of the Subaru Forester are leather free. Not completely sure, though.<br><br>
Also, there are a number of cars that have cloth heated seats. My Subaru Outback has heated cloth seats. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sleepydvdr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047791"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Salespeople are desperate to make a sell and will kiss your ass to do so. If they can get it changed out, they will. That is, if you ask before signing anything. Once you sign some paperwork, they won't care about you at all.</div>
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+1. Don't sign anything until you're ready to drive off the lot. EVEN if they have it delivered, detailed, and put their stupid logo on the back of it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>TailFin</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047877"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My "foreign" car was made in a zero landfill plant in Indiana.</div>
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Your car was made in a plant that has 3,000-4,000 american workers that are at the bottom of the companies salary pay range but was designed tested and marketed by workers in a foriegn country that are at the top of the companies salary pay range. Domestic car companies design test maket and build the cars with american workers. Another differance is when foriegn car companies make money the money is spent in their countries when domestic car companies make money they spend it in the U.S.<br>
So when you look at how much money is put into american's economy by foreign car companies by having a small part of their company here vs domestic with majority of their company here domestic wins out everytime.
 

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It's a matter of priorities. If you feel like you need a luxury car and the only ones you can find that you like have leather seats, well that's just going to be up to you. I'm can't "give you vegan permission" to get nonvegan things.<br><br>
Personally, I've never even worried about leather in cars because I've only bought a new car once (all other cars were used) and I've never seriously considered any car with leather seats. So my opinion is probably of no interest to you.
 

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Because I use hi-spec cars (Mercedes E280 right now) as my company 'van' I have to intentionaly seek out models with leather seats.<br><br>
Can't afford to destroy cloth upholstery and there is no wipe clean alternative to leather.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jaynesh</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3047016"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I just dont know if I should totally rule out a car because of it.</div>
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I would. I can't stand the smell of leather anymore because of what it represents so I would go right out of my way to buy a car without it. If I couldn't get the car I liked without leather, I would get it made-to-order. As I've found with most things to do with veganism, I've had to be prepared to pay a bit extra to live by my principles.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hotdish</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048043"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Your car was made in a plant that has 3,000-4,000 american workers that are at the bottom of the companies salary pay range but was designed tested and marketed by workers in a foriegn country that are at the top of the companies salary pay range. Domestic car companies design test maket and build the cars with american workers. Another differance is when foriegn car companies make money the money is spent in their countries when domestic car companies make money they spend it in the U.S.<br>
So when you look at how much money is put into american's economy by foreign car companies by having a small part of their company here vs domestic with majority of their company here domestic wins out everytime.</div>
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Let's plan to agree to disagree.<br><br>
I am not an economist, so I cannot speak to sales or how US vs foreign cars affect the economy--I can only hypothesize. One would presume that buying US-made cars would be better for the economy, but I doubt one could claim that foreign cars would be <span style="text-decoration:underline;">bad</span> for the economy, especially if there is creation of thousands of jobs per plant. In fact, it would be quite negative to overlook what foreign auto sales bring to the economy. In my opinion, and in many others in the US, US cars fell behind international auto makers and had a stigma of bad reliability. American tastes started to be more similar to those in Asian and European markets. What's the harm in competition pushing American companies to make and sell better cars? It will only help them in the end.
 

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You might look at a Malibu too. I like the American cars. I recently retired from an agency that had thousands of American made cars and trucks. I watched them come and go for 26.4 years (with military it's 30.4). Right now the American made cars are ranked with the best cars in the world. I know that we had a few thousand of them and they were very good. Way better than they were in the eighties and early nineties. The Fords were also very reliable cars. You might look at a Focus. If it were me I would look at Ford, Chevy and Chrysler. We put 100,000 miles on thousands of cars with no major repairs. They were exceptional cars. My last three "company" cars were: Dodge Durango, Ford Explorer and Chevrolet Impala. I never had a lemon, even in the not so great American car years.<br><br>
I loved the Durango. It had a huge V-8 and was powerful. Not green at all but major league balls.<br><br>
The Explorer was less powerful, better gas mileage and more refined than the Durango. It rode better but, plant the gas pedal and it was uninspiring.<br><br>
The Chevrolet Impala was just a decent ride all around. Good gas mileage and a smooth ride. Good power from the V-6 engine.<br><br>
None of these cars had any major issues and they were driven hard, every day, and around the clock sometimes.<br><br>
I own a Honda CRV. It's a good car, no leather in it. It's fabric and plastic. I wouldn't say that the quality is better than American made though. I do like the real time 4WD though and for a small SUV it gets the best gas mileage. My wife has a Volvo V70. It's not a wonderful car. I would get American way before most European cars, but that's just me. The Volvo is a very comfortable car but, is quirky and I have to fix it more than I should. The only European car I would consider would be BMW, and I don't need the prestige.<br><br>
The Honda's and Toyota's aren't what they once were. I love the fact that my CRV was manufactured in Ohio. My wife's Volvo is a Ford Volvo but, I think it was made in Sweden. Now Volvo is owned by a Chinese corporation. I'm gonna try and buy all of my future cars from North American manufacture. Some Chevrolets are made in Canada but, mostly in America. Ford manufactures some cars in Mexico but, mostly in the US. For the most part, Chrysler/Jeep manufactures in Michigan. Honda builds a bunch of cars and motorcycles in Ohio. Harley Davidson in Wisconsin, etc..
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hotdish</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048043"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Another differance is when foriegn car companies make money the money is spent in their countries when domestic car companies make money they spend it in the U.S.<br>
So when you look at how much money is put into american's economy by foreign car companies by having a small part of their company here vs domestic with majority of their company here domestic wins out everytime.</div>
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Why is feeding the American economy better than feeding the Indian economy?<br><br>
As a vegan, I <i>might</i> prefer to put food on an Indian's table. I <i>might</i> prefer those Indian workers, many of whom would be vegetarian, go out for a big expensive curry dinner on their end of year bonuses, rather than Americans going out for steaks.<br><br>
Just something to consider. The issue of us vs. them isn't so black and white.<br><br>
Blind nationalism is either irrational (preferring one human being over another for no good reason) or selfish (e.g. more money in MY economy means more money for ME).<br><br>
I don't think that you are a particularly irrational or selfish person, otherwise you wouldn't be vegan <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br>
There's sometimes just more to consider than "Domestic good, foreign evil".<br><br>
I prefer to consider what kind of company it is (is it an ethical one?), and the product itself rather than where it is made.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vepurusg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048289"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why is feeding the American economy better than feeding the Indian economy?<br><br>
As a vegan, I <i>might</i> prefer to put food on an Indian's table. I <i>might</i> prefer those Indian workers, many of whom would be vegetarian, go out for a big expensive curry dinner on their end of year bonuses, rather than Americans going out for steaks.<br><br>
Just something to consider. The issue of us vs. them isn't so black and white.<br><br>
Blind nationalism is either irrational (preferring one human being over another for no good reason) or selfish (e.g. more money in MY economy means more money for ME).<br><br>
I don't think that you are a particularly irrational or selfish person, otherwise you wouldn't be vegan <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br>
There's sometimes just more to consider than "Domestic good, foreign evil".<br><br>
I prefer to consider what kind of company it is (is it an ethical one?), and the product itself rather than where it is made.</div>
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Honestly I would say its always better to 1st support the economy in the place you live rather than an outside place. That is unless your income is based solely on a foriegn market.<br><br>
As a american i would rather see the people around me having homes, a place to work, clothes on their back, food to raise their families on, and money to pay the bills at the end of the month. Spending money in your local economy in turn puts more money back in your pocket by those people that work for the companies you support spending money at a place that makes your job possible<br><br>
Dont get me wrong if I could help it noone would starve or not have a home, but if you help those around you first you in return will get help to help others far away.<br><br>
Feeding the world starts with feeding your neighbor.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hotdish</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048341"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Spending money in your local economy in turn puts more money back in your pocket by those people that work for the companies you support spending money at a place that makes your job possible</div>
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I already mentioned this: "(e.g. more money in MY economy means more money for ME)"<br><br>
I can understand the selfish motivations, I can, but your posts suggest it as almost an ideological concern. If you are selfishly motivated in supporting the local economy over foreign ones, I can respect that fact (but not all of us are).<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hotdish</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048341"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Dont get me wrong if I could help it noone would starve or not have a home, but if you help those around you first you in return will get help to help others far away.<br><br>
Feeding the world starts with feeding your neighbor.</div>
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Sorry, but that's just not correct. Americans are in general for no want of food; there are socioeconomic and psychological problems resulting in poverty, but your support of the local economy does little to nothing to mitigate those (we have more than enough money to solve the problem already were there social will to do so).<br><br>
The worst that might happen in the U.S. is that the government falls short enough on funds to actually consider eliminating agricultural subsidies from its budget and the price of meat actually rises relative to vegetables and tofu.<br><br>
"God" forbid any red blooded American should have to go without a veritable cow for dinner each night. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"><br><br>
You're feeding back into a disproportionally bloated and wealthy economy. There is no comparison.<br><br>
In India, this is the difference in school children having more than one pair of clothing, or having rudimentary medical care when they're sick- not how many iPods they have.<br><br>
Do you really want to line American pockets on the off chance that they might become so fabulously wealthy that, on a whim, they decide to give a small percentage of it to charity? And charities, might I add, which are rife with corruption and waste, little to none actually reaching or empowering anybody.<br><br>
People are empowered by economic stability and sustainability, not by charity.<br><br>
Should the United States economy suffer one iota to outsourcing to poorer nations, it would be a boon to humanity as a whole, and to the reduction of suffering throughout the world.<br><br>
If you're making an argument from selfishness- I completely agree, it is to your benefit to maintain the economic bubble that sustains American opulence. I don't agree with that kind of practice, but I understand where you're coming from and I can respectfully agree to disagree.<br><br>
If you're making the argument that it's somehow a morally favorable position?<br>
No, I don't buy that at all. And if you think about it, I believe you'll find that the particular details are a bit hard to swallow too.<br><br>
No offense, but I think you should reconsider some of your arguments on the moral front there.<br><br>
I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy American made cars if you really want to- I'm just saying that the situation is a little more complicated than all of that.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vepurusg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048289"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why is feeding the American economy better than feeding the Indian economy?</div>
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It was an Indian, Ghandi, who set out the importance of people buying goods produced as localy as is possible.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Clueless Git</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3048371"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It was an Indian, Ghandi, who set out the importance of people buying goods produced as localy as is possible.</div>
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In my understanding, that was about Indian independence from British rule (the ethical merits of which are debatable).<br><span style="font-size:small;">There's certainly little argument to be made that we are under the thumbs of the Indian colonial empire and that by home-spinning our cars we're practicing civil disobedience against those draconian laws the Indians force on us to prohibit us from making our own cars... (sorry, I couldn't resist) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"></span><br><br>
It is, of course, good to reduce one's carbon footprint by buying foods and other items produced as locally as possible, as well as reducing waste, but when it comes to items like cars, being shipped around the world is kind of a drop in the bucket, and can be easily offset by the smallest variations in the supply and production chains. That is to say, an Indian car doesn't necessarily have any higher carbon footprint in the U.S. than a U.S. made car (I would wager that it has a bit less). But if we are just talking about carbon footprint here, that's something which can be measured and considered apart from the origin of the item.
 
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