[gas4]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to tell you all about what happened with my iron levels in case anyone is in the same position as me.<br><br><br><br>
When I stopped eating meat I assumed that I would need supplementary iron so I started taking centrum. About 6months after that I thought I'd go and get a blood test to make sure that I was getting enough. Anyway the results came back that I was getting too much iron. Now I've looked it up and too much iron can have all sorts of negative effects, I didn't realize how serious it was. So anyway the doctor said that I had to stop taking the Centrum and come back for another blood test, which I did, and it turned out that it was ok. There was the possibility that it was a genetic condition which requires treatment but it was just the Centrum. In fact it turns out that the cereal I eat is full of iron, and I hardly lose any during my period because it's so small.<br><br><br><br>
My point is this, I thought that you could just take some supplements and if you got enough vitamins and minerals then great, and if you got too much then it didn't matter - NOT TRUE! If you're going to add extra then please get some tests done to make sure that you do need it.

 

[Diana]

No-one should ever need any supplements if they are eating healthily and if they do not have a medical condition.<br><br><br><br>
It's a big money-making business. Don't fall into that trap.<br><br><br><br>
Just eat properly, exercice properly, sleep enough hours and enjoy life.<br><br><br><br>
Veganism does NOT mean that one needs to supplement one's diet. If one eats sensibly without it becoming an obsession and a religion, then it's ridiculous to take supplements. Now if one is just stuffing oneself with junk vegan food... that is another story, but the solution would not be to take supplements but to go deep into oneself and find out why one is deliberately sabotaging one's health.<br><br><br><br>
(My iron levels are very very low at present, I nearly fell off my chair when I saw how low they were, but that is not due to my diet but due to a medical condition. That is another story altogether.)

 

[bstutzma]

Vegans Do need to ensure a good source of B12, though, Diana, either through fortified foods or vitamin supplements.

 

[Diana]

B12 is perhaps an exception to the rule. Although everyone knows that there is controversy about this which has definitely not been resolved either one way or another. Each camp proclaims that they know the truth about it.

 

[Lothar M Kirsch]

Iron is an aggressive element. Too much also means too much free radicals. That is the reason why the body controls absorption or serum levels. If you need more iron, absorption is enhanced. If you eat lots of meat or supplements you already get more than you need. Any inflammation (viral, fungal, or bacterial infections, rheumatic diseases, cancer) causes low iron level in the serum (blood). In inflammation you get a low iron and a normal or eben high ferritin ("storage iron") count. In iron defiency you get a low iron and a low ferritin count.<br><br><br><br>
Shortcut: be careful with iron supplements, most of us don't need them!

 

[bstutzma]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
B12 is perhaps an exception to the rule. Although everyone knows that there is controversy about this which has definitely not been resolved either one way or another. Each camp proclaims that they know the truth about it.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I don't think there is too much controversy at all. I've heard the other side and I think its bunk. But that's another thread entirely.<br><br><br><br>
Iron, as Lothar has said, is one of those minerals you CAN get too much of. Same with vitamin D, and fat soluble vitamins. But a standard supplement containing too much iron? Gas4, are you eating a lot of other iron fortified foods? If not, I think Centrum should be contacted and told that their formulation might be off. This has happened before (I remember reading an article where a milk company was accidentally fortifying its milk with something like 100 times what it should have been, and a few people got sick before the problem was corrected.)

 

[Diana]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>bstutzma</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I don't think there is too much controversy at all. I've heard the other side and I think its bunk. But that's another thread entirely.<br><br><br></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
LOL!!!!! That's exactly what I mean. Each side things the other side's arguments are bunk. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""><br><br><br><br>
Lothar: My iron counts are at present at 6 micrograms per litre. Funny thing is that I don't feel THAT tired. I get "peaks" of tiredness but the rest of the time, I am all bouncy and energetic. I would have thought that at 6, I would be half "dead".

 

[Indian Summer]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
LOL!!!!! That's exactly what I mean. Each side things the other side's arguments are bunk. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""></div>
</div>
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Are there really very many vegans who think B12 supplementation isn't necessary?<br><br><br><br>
ETA: Oops..wrong username.

 

[Diana]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Indian Summer</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Are there really very many vegans who think B12 supplementation isn't necessary?<br></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Why would this be important? Is the majority always right?<br><br><br><br>
(Personally, I have not made up my mind about this, and maybe never will. In doubt, I take a B12 supplement thinking it will not do me any harm.)

 

[IamJen]

No. I don't think the majority is always right (duh). However, my impression was that there were VERY few, not a minority, of vegans who didn't believe in supplementation in some form. I was just saying that I didn't really think there was a controversy.

 

[gas4]



<br><br>
Iron, as Lothar has said, is one of those minerals you CAN get too much of. Same with vitamin D, and fat soluble vitamins. But a standard supplement containing too much iron? Gas4, are you eating a lot of other iron fortified foods? QUOTE]<br><br><br><br>
Yip, that was the problem, I eat a lot of cereal, and the one I like is full of it. The tests I did located the two sources in the Centrum and the cereal. I told my Mum to stop taking centrum all the time as well because she's not even veg. so she'd be getting it from meat as well. It worries me to think how many people might be getting way too much iron.

 

[Gita]

There are way too many vegans (and vegetarians) here who do not do any planning regarding their food intake. Just read the posts. Some are not eating vegetables at all, just pasta, bread, soy meat analogues, and french fries, which would make them just as unhealthy as your average MeatMcDiet teenager. I even read posts that people are Vegans and do not like vegetables. I also have read that a diet too high in fiber (as many vegan/vegetarian diets can be) halt the absorption of necessary micro-nutrients. For anyone with a diet like this, I think a B spectrum+C is a good thing. As a person gets older, and if illness or healing from wounds, sometimes more is useful. Saying "see your doctor" sometimes dosent work considering the huge reality that millions of Americans do not have health insurance and actually self-prescribe without a doctor to aid them.

 

[Diana]

A lot of vegans rely on processed foods. I am amazed at all the "boca burgers" (whatever they are!) and "patties" and "tofurkey" (god, I hate that word) and stuff that people eat.<br><br><br><br>
What happened to NORMAL food??????? Like a good hearty plate of veggies and brown rice? And a big plate of fruit in the morning with a few nuts?<br><br><br><br>
People need to COMPLICATE their lives with processed junk food because they are addicted to the stuff.<br><br><br><br>
Most people would not need doctors if they ATE in a NORMAL manner. Food is not medicine but it certainly prevents a WHOLE range of illnesses and malaises.

 

[Lothar M Kirsch]

bstutzma: I also read an article on overfortifying milk. They found out that the vitamin D wasn't evenly distributed, meaning an overdose in some bottles or tetra-paks and an underdose in quite a lot of others.<br><br>
Diana: 6 µg/dl is indeed low, and perhaps you know the reason why, if not try to find out.<br><br>
Gita: that's more than true. On the long run people adapt, but coping with too fibre also means that your zinc level goes down and zinc is necessary for certain enzymes that break up the zinc to fiber bond. And generally speaking too much of a good thing might turn out to be bad. Most thing follow normal distribution curves (Gauss curves). E.g. there is an optimum for health and if you're too low or too high you get problems.

 

[Diana]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Lothar M Kirsch</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Diana: 6 µg/dl is indeed low, and perhaps you know the reason why, if not try to find out.<br></div>
</div>
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I know why, Lothar. I have an illness but I'm going to beat it!!! By hook or by crook. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="">

 

[Lothar M Kirsch]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I know why, Lothar. I have an illness but I'm going to beat it!!! By hook or by crook. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""></div>
</div>
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Best wishes and all the strength you need. I'll keep my fingers crossed (through it's hard to type this way) !!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sunny.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":sunny:">

 

[Diana]

Lothar, thank you for your wishes. Do you know that I have noticed that when I laugh (like when you just can't stop laughing as in "being in stiches"), I feel better for hours on end. It is really true that laughter is a good medicine - it is not just a myth.<br><br><br><br>
What I would dearly love to find out is how much Vitamin C and how much Iron I would need in order to balance things out, considering that one needs Vitamin C to fix the Iron.<br><br><br><br>
Also, I would love to know whether one needs to eat the Vitamin C foods at the SAME time as the Iron foods, or if it's okay that they are spaced apart. The reason for this is that I am attempting Food Combining to see if this will aid me to get better, and I don't want to mix fruits and vegetables in the same meals. And most high Vitamin C foods are fruit.

 

[gaya]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Lothar, thank you for your wishes. Do you know that I have noticed that when I laugh (like when you just can't stop laughing as in "being in stiches"), I feel better for hours on end. It is really true that laughter is a good medicine - it is not just a myth.<br><br><br><br>
What I would dearly love to find out is how much Vitamin C and how much Iron I would need in order to balance things out, considering that one needs Vitamin C to fix the Iron.<br><br><br><br>
Also, I would love to know whether one needs to eat the Vitamin C foods at the SAME time as the Iron foods, or if it's okay that they are spaced apart. The reason for this is that I am attempting Food Combining to see if this will aid me to get better, and I don't want to mix fruits and vegetables in the same meals. And most high Vitamin C foods are fruit.</div>
</div>
<br>
Yes Diana, you should consume Vit C when eating foods rich in iron. eta: i usually have some OJ with a meal. or you could get some C pills. The ones i like are sort of like candy.

 

[gaya]

btw, what's the deal with combining fruits and veggies?

 

[mazikeen]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Diana</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Also, I would love to know whether one needs to eat the Vitamin C foods at the SAME time as the Iron foods, or if it's okay that they are spaced apart. The reason for this is that I am attempting Food Combining to see if this will aid me to get better, and I don't want to mix fruits and vegetables in the same meals. And most high Vitamin C foods are fruit.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Diana, as Gaya already said, it's essential that you have Vitamic C together with any iron-rich foods. I understand you don't want to mix fruits and veggies, but you could go for veggies like raw pepper (of various colours), or leafy greens. I find that eating a salad with peppers alongside every meal helps. Does lemon count as a fruit? You could sprinkle it onto your food (depending on what you're having, of course), or have a squeezed half lemon with water. Good luck!!!