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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i've been a vegeatarian for 5 yrs. i'm not sure if i want to go vegan or not...<br><br><br><br>
heres my question...whats wrong with eating cheese/honey/milk??? i think its all right to eat these things as long as the animals are kept humanely.<br><br><br><br>
please...i would like to know what you all think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Vegan means no animal products at all. The farms can say the animals are treated humanely all they want, but that doesn't mean it's true.<br><br>
Milk production can't be at all pleasant for cows. The cows are usually artificially inseminated on "rape racks" and separated from their calves hours or even minutes after giving birth. For the next two to five years of their lives they're kept in cramped quarters and they get to have they're boobs yanked on 2-3 times a day. When their milk production starts to wane, they're slaughtered. The very rare, small, family-owned farms, like the one my grandparents used to have :-( , treat the cows slightly better, but they still seem pretty miserable.<br><br>
An ingredient in cheese is the rennet in calves' stomachs. The calves, of course, have to be killed for this to be obtained.<br><br>
The production of honey causes the deaths of millions of bees. Most people seem to think we can overlook this because bees aren't cuddly, but most vegans still think they deserve the right to life and freedom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
hmn...what if you do buy your milk from a small fam. owned business that does treat the cows right and only produces milk?<br><br>
would it be alright to drink milk then? the cheese thing is gross...i love cheese <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("><br><br>
I really appreciate your taking the time to reply...thanks mate <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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there's no seperating the dairy industry from the veal industry .. there's no other "practical" use for the unwanted male calves. No matter how humanely dairy cattle are treated, that should be reason alone to stay away from it .. not to mention that it's just not natural to drink milk beyond weaning age - let alone milk from another species.<br><br><br><br>
and honey .. well .. <a href="http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm</a> <-- that page explains it best.
 

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These are all great reasons to eliminate those foods from your diet. Wanted to add my voice to the chorus.<br><br><br><br>
You won't miss them after a while, trust me, especially after you consider what they really are.
 

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Even if the cows are treated humanely, I'd try to avoid dairy as much as you possibly can. <a href="http://www.vegparadise.com/otherbirds10.html" target="_blank">Click here</a><br><br><br><br>
I have to admit, parting with dairy has been a real struggle for me. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("> I think they put something in cow's milk to get you hooked, I really do. I've stopped drinking it though. I avoid it as much as possible, but dairy isn't totally absent from my diet.<br><br><br><br>
I really don't even know where I stand on the honey issue. That stuff (along with gelatin) is everywhere. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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i very seldom have to deal with gelatin or honey in foods i buy and if so i can usually find a different brand that does not have either in it
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
its slavery to me. everything has freewill, but when your hookin a cow up to a rape rack, well i like to think the cow would rather not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
plus its unnatural and, well there is to much negatives to warrant using the products u mentioned. just like there are to many positives to ignore veganism.
 

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for me giving up dairy was initially about health reasons . Dairy just isn't healthy I could go on and on with wrongs with dairy health wise, but i think the fact that 70% of the world population has a intolerance (and generally don't know it) the great thing about giving up dairy is the mental clairity it seems to bring.
 

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someone earlied mentioned something about milk being addictive,<br><br>
i think that it is because lactose is similar to or contains a form of sugar..<br><br>
if i remember right..some people will try to argue but its is my personal belief that sugar is just as addictive as many drugs which are illegal...<br><br><br><br>
and of course not necessary at all to a diet, i sometimes use "sugar in the raw" if i really crave something but seldomly as after i stopped eating sugar (except on the rare occasions)i stopped wanting it most of the time after about 3 months
 

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With all the great substitutes out there, there's really no reason to eat any meat/cheese/milk. We don't buy dairy for home anymore, cause all it does is make you fat, give you bad skin, clogs your arteries, and make your mouth all pastey. (blech)<br><br><br><br>
I agree with the other people here who say that milk cows, evern though it's said they're treated good, there's still something bad that goes on that we don't know about.<br><br><br><br>
And cow's milk is built to feed an animal 10 times our size--it's built to build muscle for a 1000 lbs. animal. We shouldn't be eating something like that. If any milk or cheese product is consumed, goat milk is a better way to go. For one, goats aren't mass produced like cows, and they're approximately our size, so the milk isn't as insanely bad for us. I think this is my rationale, since I'm incredibly addicted to grilled houloumi cheese--it's steak for vegetarians!<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, there's no reason to eat cow-anything.
 

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For me, dairy is a real killer (pun intended). I'm part of the 70% that can't handle dairy and according to some of the things I've read, that figure may be higher because of the people that don't know they're LI and are possibly being treated for other conditions. Back in the days when I realized that I <i>had</i> to cut out dairy because of what it was doing to me, there were very little substitutions available, so it was either cut them out altogether or try to have it and have problems. Since cutting out dairy, I don't get migraines as often (if at all), my sinuses are clearer even in high-pollen/high allergy seasons, and my "bathroom visits" are less.... um,.... er,... uh,.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/spew.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":spew:"> out the backside.<br><br><br><br>
From what I've read, milk products are very hard on the human system to process and digest. The same is true with red meat and since they are both from the same source, I believe that it's no concidence. Cow milk is only made for cows. I feel the same for goat, but goat is a bit easier for humans to digest and less problematic so if you <i>have</i> to do dairy, go for the goat and leave the cows alone! But the best alternative is not to do dairy at all. It's just useless calories with unnecessary (and bad) fats that contains no nutritional value. Why do that to yourself?<br><br><br><br>
But it all comes down to what you feel is best. We've all presented our feeling about dairy and if you feel that you still want to have diary from "humanely treated animals", then go for it but my feeling is that there are other things far more nutritious and far more enjoyable than bovine breast milk.<br><br><br><br>
As for the honey - I have not read enough to make a definate opinion as to if I'm for or against eating it. Sugar is bad for me in general, so if I have to have something sweet, I'll reach for an orange, bunch of grapes, or some other fruit that I have in the house. I've found that I like goodness from the ground much better than anything a bee could barf up and whole fruit is less likely to be processed than honey would.
 
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