VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,<br><br>
Just a little bit about myself. I've been a lacto-ovo-vegetarian for about 8 months now, with very very minimal intake of dairy products. I try to avoid eggs and milk as much as I can, but I'm not very particular if a bit of it is included in bread or other pastries. I also eat cheese for convenience because most vegetarian options in Italian restaurants do include cheese. I AM aware about the cruelty involved in the dairy industry and I have been considering eliminating eggs and milk from my diet. However, I am slightly reluctant because of a few reasons. One is the inconvenience it poses to my family and friends, but I think I can get over this one since being lacto-ovo-vegetarian is also inconvenient and I am able to hold my stand.<br><br>
The second is the possible health repercussions of a vegan diet in the long term. I realize that a lot of sources say that one can get all his necessary nutrients from a 100% plant-based diet, but I try to get a balanced viewpoint by reading articles that are not by vegans/vegetarians. Most, if not all, sources would agree that although a vegan diet is healthful in the short-term, it poses a lot of health risks in the long term. I have also been reading personal accounts by ex-vegans who have been vegans for a long time (mostly from the website <a href="http://www.letthemeatmeat.com" target="_blank">http://www.letthemeatmeat.com</a>) From what I gather, most of them were eating healthful vegan meals rich in whole grains and vegetables. Most of them also claim to have taken careful attention to their nutrient-intake. Seems to me like they ate what a typical "healthy vegan" diet was, and yet they suffered from a wide range of illnesses. Complaints of feeling tired, lethargic, and slow to think seem to be common. From these personal accounts, it also seems like we DO need some animal protein after all, even if it's just a few eggs/milk. (Please don't kill me. I'm not trying to discredit veganism. I am merely trying to sort out my confusion over this issue.)<br><br>
So to sum it up, since I've only been in this diet for 8 months so far, I have had no significant problems with my health except for the occasional cold when I don't eat fruits. Then again, I used to suffer from more colds back when I ate meat. I just don't want to forge ahead with idealistic enthusiasm in eliminating eggs and milk completely only to realize that I am on the verge of suffering from some dire health complication. It would be great if a long-term-vegan can personally testify about his/her health. By long term, I was thinking about more than 10 years?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
Maybe those "vegans" who ate a lot of whole grains should have tried a grain-free diet instead of adding animal products. *shrug*<br><br>
I think being an omnivore is an inconvenience for what it's worth. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,707 Posts
I think it's funny that so many vegans claim to have health problems caused by veganism, and instead of eating small amounts of healthier non-vegan options, they're suddenly chowing down on sausages, burgers and cheese. I think you should take anecdotal evidance from ex-vegans OR vegans online with a pinch of salt, it's not something reliable enough to base any conclusions on health on.<br><br>
Personally, I don't read scientific studies on the vegan diet because I'm not versed enough in nutrition or biology to analyse what's reliable, what isn't, and what conclusions to draw from the bulk of it anyway. Instead I tend to look to places like my doctors and the NHS in general for advice, which says that a vegan diet with a B12 supplement is completley healthy for me. Results show that vegetarians tend to have the best health out of vegetarians, vegans, omnis who eat small amounts of meat and omnis who eat a lot of meat - but whether that's because a vegan diet is intrinsictly less healthy than a vegetarian one, or because not all vegans eat properly balanced vegan diet, or even anything else, I do not know.<br><br>
However there are some "long term" vegans on here who I am sure can put your mind at rest that they're still alive and doing just great! I have been 100% vegan for three years and am doing fine if that helps any also!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,693 Posts
I am lacto-octo as well, but I must add to this conversation that most people, regardless of their lifestyle, don't understand nutrition. The fact that the government standard is complete BS from beginning to end doesn't help either. I think you'll find that the majority of the American population, and increasingly the world population partially as a result of our flawed science, whether carnivore, omnivore, vegetarian, or vegan, has health problems that could be attributed to their poor diet.<br><br>
For every veg*n that returns to meat due to health complications, there is a meat eater that turns to veg*nism due to health complications. For most of them, neither meat or lack of meat has anything to do with their problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
I'm doing well, after more than 10 years as a vegan. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
I eat pretty well, but I am <i>terrible</i> about taking supplements, so I had my blood work done earlier this year and everything was good. I thought D might be low, as I don't go outside a lot, but it was fine.<br><br>
I do eat some fortified foods, such as soymilk and cereal, but I mostly eat things that I make myself, like hummus, green salads, veggie stir-frys, vegan tacos, spaghetti, pizza, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901776"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Maybe those "vegans" who ate a lot of whole grains should have tried a grain-free diet instead of adding animal products.</div>
</div>
<br>
What's wrong with whole grains?<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>delicioso</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901803"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm doing well, after more than 10 years as a vegan. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
I eat pretty well, but I am <i>terrible</i> about taking supplements, so I had my blood work done earlier this year and everything was good. I thought D might be low, as I don't go outside a lot, but it was fine.<br><br>
I do eat some fortified foods, such as soymilk and cereal, but I mostly eat things that I make myself, like hummus, green salads, veggie stir-frys, vegan tacos, spaghetti, pizza, etc.</div>
</div>
<br>
So you don't take any supplements at all? How about the infamous Vitamin B-12?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
I take a sublingual a couple times a month, eat a good bit of nutritional yeast, and probably get more in whatever fortified foods I'm eating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,026 Posts
<a href="http://veganhealth.org" target="_blank">http://veganhealth.org</a> is a useful website to learn about vegan nutrition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901804"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What's wrong with whole grains?</div>
</div>
<br>
I didn't say there was anything wrong with whole grains, but there are much better sources of nutrition/better sources of calories, first of all; secondly, they cause the body to become acidic; third, they cause inflammation; fourth, they are dehydrating. If we want to do a fifth, some of them aren't easily digestible. Then again, I'm an athlete and prefer to be at my best, so I think hydration and an anti-inflammatory diet along with lots of energy are important. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Vegan Very Metal
Joined
·
774 Posts
I agree with nearly everything nomad888 stated, except that I am vegan.<br><br>
I can certainly say that my health has not deteriorated since becoming vegan, and I became vegan in September 1996 after three years of vegetarianism. The few health issues that I have now, I had before I became vegetarian in 1993, and I have not consulted a doctor since 1999.<br><br>
Not sure there has been any long term studies of vegan diets, by this I mean covering many decades, not just 1-10 years. Given that the word vegan was only coined in 1944 by Donald Watson.<br><br>
I think to evaluate the findings of obviously biased research that claims that veganism is unhealthy in the long term is very misleading. There have been vegans who have lived into their nineties, and thrived on a vegan diet for many many years, with Donald Watson being one of those people.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,587 Posts
Science is the key.<br><br>
Out of the people on the letthemeatmeat website and bloggers and authors that share stories about how they got sick because of eating vegan there is not very much actual scientific evidence that is discussed as to what is in meat and not available in a vegan diet that makes them feel better.<br><br>
First of all people are going to get sick for a lot of reasons, some is genetic, some is environmental, and most of it is how we treat ourselves. Being vegan does not mean we will never get sick or diseases, it greatly prevents many diseases however it is not a magic shield from illness.<br><br>
Second, these people "think" they are eating a balanced diet, but are they really? probably not, or what they think is balances has been skewed by a plethora of misinformation out there about nutrition.<br><br>
When someone can pin point the nutrient/vitamin/mineral in meat or animal products that helps these people I will not ignore it. This has yet to be done and I am not going to start eating cheese and meat just because it hasn't been found yet...<br><br>
Been vegan 7-8 years now, my health keeps improving with each year <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>penny79</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901817"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
secondly, they cause the body to become acidic;</div>
</div>
<br>
Bwahahahaha.... I'm sorry, but that is one of the more ridiculous statements I have heard in a long time.<br><br>
It is impossible for our body to 'become acidic'.... If such a thing were to occur, we would die in a very horrible way.<br><br>
The buffering system in our body makes it virtually impossible for the pH of our body to change in any significant way from our dietary intake (short of drinking concentrated strong acid).<br><br>
The only thing that is changed in any way is the pH of the urine, which is pretty well irrelevant when it comes to overall health.<br><br><a href="http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html" target="_blank">http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...SH/coral2.html</a><br><br>
Here's some information about the awesome buffering system our body has. It's actually pretty darned cool!<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis</a><br><a href="http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/acid-base+balance" target="_blank">http://medical-dictionary.thefreedic...d-base+balance</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
908 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chiroptera</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901996"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Bwahahahaha.... I'm sorry, but that is one of the more ridiculous statements I have heard in a long time.<br><br>
It is impossible for our body to 'become acidic'.... If such a thing were to occur, we would die in a very horrible way.<br><br>
The buffering system in our body makes it virtually impossible for the pH of our body to change in any significant way from our dietary intake (short of drinking concentrated strong acid).<br><br>
The only thing that is changed in any way is the pH of the urine, which is pretty well irrelevant when it comes to overall health.<br><br><a href="http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html" target="_blank">http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...SH/coral2.html</a><br><br>
Here's some information about the awesome buffering system our body has. It's actually pretty darned cool!<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid-base_homeostasis</a><br><a href="http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/acid-base+balance" target="_blank">http://medical-dictionary.thefreedic...d-base+balance</a></div>
</div>
<br>
It's still a fact that to avert the body becoming acidic calcium is often leeched from the bones, which is not healthy. This is also why dairy doesn't make your bones as strong as it's always cracked up to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,946 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kjesta</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2902008"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's still a fact that to avert the body becoming acidic calcium is often leeched from the bones, which is not healthy. This is also why dairy doesn't make your bones as strong as it's always cracked up to be.</div>
</div>
<br>
Yeah.....uhm, it's not like i'm the one who made that up re: acidity and certain foods. A quick Google search will help anyone out!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,548 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Under normal circumstances, a selectively alkaline diet has not been shown in vivo to either elicit a sustained change in blood pH levels, or provide the clinical benefits as alleged by its proponents. In addition, the mechanisms by which an alkaline diet produces the alleged benefits are vague, unknown, or nonfactual.[9][10] As a result, it is not widely accepted by the mainstream medical or scientific community, and is often thought of as a pseudo-science.[11][12] It is listed on the medical watchdog site Quackwatch[13].<br><br>
Opponents of the alkaline diet usually point out that the pH of the human bloodstream is tightly regulated by homeostatic mechanisms between 7.35 and 7.45[14], and that a blood pH above 7.45 (more alkaline) results in a harmful condition known as alkalosis, often causing hypokalemia and hypocalcemia. In addition, most of the studies which allege to show benefits produced by an alkaline diet are merely reporting a neutralisation the effects of acidosis (a medical condition where the blood pH falls below 7.35)[15], taking a holistic approach to human health, or interpreting in vitro results with little or no relevance to the human body.</div>
</div>
<br>
I'll let you interpret it as you want.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,189 Posts
over 11 years vegan now. Nothing bad has come from it yet, that I'm aware of. Haven't had a cold since the summer of 2007.<br><br>
A lot of people *want* it to not work out, and they'll get their wish somehow. Just go to a typical doctor who's against a veg diet and let the power of suggestion run it's usual course, or read articles that can work the same magic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,097 Posts
I'd recommend <a href="http://www.veganhealth.org/" target="_blank">http://www.veganhealth.org/</a> as a resource on a properly planned vegan lifestyle.<br><br>
Of particular note is their page on sports nutrition, including a link to an article entitled "The men who live forever." It seems like some people do very well as vegans.<br><br>
Also note that this site does <i>not</i> promote raw foodism or a grain free diet. Whatever propaganda some of the other vegans you've met might have swallowed, the most up to date food science doesn't support it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
144 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
OMG. Thanks for sharing the website. I have been neglecting taking my Vitamin B12 supplements lately because I've been misled by a vegetarian friend into thinking that we don't really need them. I did a quick search online and found that a symptom is the disappearance of the white half moons on your fingers. Mine have disappeared from all except my thumbs! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,032 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I realize that a lot of sources say that one can get all his necessary nutrients from a 100% plant-based diet, but I try to get a balanced viewpoint by reading articles that are not by vegans/vegetarians.</div>
</div>
<br>
What does that mean? A 'balanced viewpoint'? For most claims there's plenty of counter arguments, some based on sound reasoning and science, others just BS. Viewing the BS doesn't mean your viewpoint is more balanced.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Most, if not all, sources would agree that although a vegan diet is healthful in the short-term, it poses a lot of health risks in the long term.</div>
</div>
<br>
So I'd recommend that rather than read blogs and anecdotal self-diagnosed claims, let's stick with actual evidence that can be verified. If you do have any such, please list, in detail the documentation to support your claim that "Most, if not all, sources would agree..."<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have also been reading personal accounts by ex-vegans who have been vegans for a long time (mostly from the website <a href="http://www.letthemeatmeat.com" target="_blank">http://www.letthemeatmeat.com</a>)</div>
</div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"><br><br>
You call reading that anecdotal site balancing your viewpoint? Or are you implying that is where you get all your counter information?<br><br>
Yes, I've read some of that. He's an individual with issues. He may have some valid criticisms from time to time, but that doesn't mean he's often right. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
From what I gather, most of them were eating healthful vegan meals rich in whole grains and vegetables. Most of them also claim to have taken careful attention to their nutrient-intake. Seems to me like they ate what a typical "healthy vegan" diet was, and yet they suffered from a wide range of illnesses.</div>
</div>
<br>
So if they ate 'healthful' and paid 'careful attention to their nutrient-intake' why did they have issues? Do they not understand the difference between correlation and causation? Are they self-diagnosed and it's just anecdotal evidence or do they have actual documentation supporting their claims of their illnesses directly caused by the (obviously unhealthy diet, since if they had issues it wasn't healthy <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">)?<br><br>
We should be careful with all anecdotal evidence (in support of and against veganism). What we should rely on is actual evidence. Documented, reproducible, based on actual science than some of that superstition.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>omnisheep</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Complaints of feeling tired, lethargic, and slow to think seem to be common. From these personal accounts, it also seems like we DO need some animal protein after all, even if it's just a few eggs/milk. (Please don't kill me. I'm not trying to discredit veganism. I am merely trying to sort out my confusion over this issue.)</div>
</div>
<br>
Other than that site, what actual documentation (which I don't count anecdotal evidence among) do you have? What is the mechanism by which humans 'DO need some animal protein'? And why? What cultures and groups of people can we look to for any documented evidence of being fine and not consuming 'animal protein'?<br><br>
Have you looked into any studies based on veganism long term (studies done on vegans for more than 10 yrs)?<br><br>
What is your understanding of protein?
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top