Light Bulb Ban

Joe · Jul 11, 2011

I was not sure where to post this, but I guess it falls under "technology." 
I got an e-mail from Marsha Blackburn, a Representative I don't 
usually agree with. But on this issue I do agree. 
The House will vote today (Monday) to repeal legislation banning the 
sale of incandescent light bulbs. First of all, I had never heard of 
this legislation before now. Second, while I think non-incandescent 
bulbs do have some advantages, I think they should be chosen freely, 
not forced on us through a legislative ban on the sale of incandescent 
bulbs. 
Blackburn references an article in National Review. While I don't 
usually agree with National Review, and while I find remarks like 
calling George W. Bush a "Brooks Brothers socialist" wacky, I do think 
the author has done a good job in making the case against the ban. 
"If the law is left unchallenged, Jan. 1, 2012, will bring stricter 
standards that Congress designed in 2007 to electrocute Edisons 
invention and dragoon Americans into using more energy-efficient 
alternatives. Next New Years Day, it will become a federal crime to 
sell traditional 100-watt bulbs. January 1, 2013, will spell curtains 
for the 75-watt models. One year later, 60-watt and 40-watt 
incandescent bulbs will be prohibited by federal law." 
See: 
Deroy Murdock 
Stop the War on Edisons Bulb! 
July 8, 2011 <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/271294/light-failed-deroy-murdock" target="_blank">http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-deroy-murdock</a>

obankobi · Jul 11, 2011

I think the original bill is a good one. I don't see any advantage of incandescent, other than they're "warm", which is a silly reason to keep using them. Florescent and LED bulbs are far more efficient, and provide more natural light. There is mercury in flourescents, but it is a very small amount. You would have to get on the ground and start licking the broken bulb, and probably start munching on them to get enough to harm you. Some have as little as 1mg, most no more then 4mg. Landfill waste is a bigger concern, but powerplant energy savings make up for the mercury in the bulb: <img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3a/Mercury_emissions_by_light_source_EPA_2008.svg/440px-Mercury_emissions_by_light_source_EPA_2008.svg.png" style="border:0px solid;"> 
LED's are a bit iffy at the moment, but are getting much better at having cleaner manufacturing processes and better quality control and light output. 
Small note: Thomas Edison was both a liar and a thief, stealing technology and ideas from good men, such as Nikola Tesla. /end personal attack on T.E. 
Edit: I should add that incandescent turn on nearly instantaneously. I can't actually perceive a delay between the sound of the switch and the lights coming on. Perhaps the author has crappy lamps/bulbs. 
Another edit, by me, mr. unobservant: 
I didn't realize there was more than one page. His arguments are largely silly. He claims that traffic lights will be whited out with snow if LED's are used. First of all, he must not have noticed the metal covering protruding from the stop lights. How would snow get in there? Perhaps wind. If that turns out to be the case, the solution is simple. Cover the circular opening with a piece of transparent plastic or glass. 
I understand some people's arguments against florescent lights, and agree with some, especially the mercury in landfills argument. Other than that, it's just people clinging, as this author clearly was, to the past.

Hazelnut · Jul 11, 2011

I'm hating this trend. 
I've already started stockpiling bulbs and sockets. 
For me, it's not a matter or energy or heat... Fluorescent bulbs, and LED lights trigger my migraines if they are in my field of vision. In a commercial building, the fluorescent bulbs are way up high. But in a home, they are directly in your line of vision as you look about the room. 
I don't know what I'm going to do! 
I don't have to deal with migraines, and I don't even need medication for them. but, if I have to spend a few hours in someone's home with those special-weshal energy efficient bulbs, I'll have to start eating aspirin and Tylenol like they're candy.

Fatman · Jul 12, 2011

If it happened while congress was held hostage by the democrats, and it was something that bammy wanted, then I am all for reversing it. 
I feel this way even though I use mostly fluorescent bulbs in my home.

sequoia · Jul 12, 2011

Candles are the way to go.

River · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by sequoia <a href="/forum/post/2937261"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Candles are the way to go.</div>
</div>
 
Soy candles.

Joe · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by obankobi <a href="/forum/post/2937194"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
There is mercury in flourescents, but it is a very small amount. You would have to get on the ground and start licking the broken bulb, and probably start munching on them to get enough to harm you. Some have as little as 1mg, most no more then 4mg.</div>
</div>
 
I don't know where you get your "licking the broken bulb" statement from. 
According to the article, the Environmental Protection Agency’s “maximum contaminant level” is 0.002 milligrams per liter, so one CFL bulb has 500 to 2000 times this amount. 
The chart you present does not take into account the fuel source of electric power. Some areas of the country use fuels that produce much more mercury contamination, some much less. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by obankobi <a href="/forum/post/2937194"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
He claims that traffic lights will be whited out with snow if LED's are used.</div>
</div>
 
Actually, although he mentions traffic lights, most of his discussion relates to street lights. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">This means that the snow and ice that normally melt on contact with a hot, Edison-style streetlight or traffic signal instead coat LED fixtures. Street lights get whited out, “a problem blamed for dozens of accidents and at least one death,” Ramde explained. 
This situation caused Duane Kassens, a Wisconsin driver, to get into a fender-bender. “The police officer told me the new lights weren’t melting the snow,” Kassens said. “How is that safe?” 
In April 2009, Illinois officials say, motorist Lisa Richter began a left turn. Because of snow obstruction, an oncoming driver who could not see an LED-driven streetlight smashed into Richter, killing her at age 34. 
“Would the accident have occurred if the lights had been clear?” Oswego police detective Rob Sherwood told the AP. “I would be willing to bet not.” 
Several jurisdictions have addressed this challenge by retrofitting street lights with heating elements, such as those used on airport runway lights. This burns more energy — reducing the LEDs’ chief benefit. </div>
</div>
 
(Emphasis added.)

Joe · Jul 12, 2011

I got another e-mail from Marsha Blackburn today. 
------------------------------ 
July 11, 2011 
Tomorrow, the House is scheduled to vote on legislation introduced by me and Representatives Barton and Burgess to repeal the incandescent light bulb ban. 
I am determined to fight for individual freedom. The federal government should not be involved in your right to purchase a consumer product. I need your help now. Please sign my Petition " <a href="http://mta.frontrunnercms.com/?r=MTAwMQ0KSjU5NTItMjAxNTI4OTMtMTJiYy00OGZkLWJhOGEtMmE1NmRhOTJlNzMxDQpjNDM4N2NiMi00NGRjLTQ0OTQtODYxZS1hYTJhNGI4YjJjZGQNCjhhMDAwMDAwYzhjYjg1DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LnZvdGVtYXJzaGEuY29tL3NhdmUtdGhlLWxpZ2h0LWJ1bGI%2Fcz02OUpXDQp0cnVlDQpqb2VzaGVkbG9ja0BnbWFpbC5jb20%3D" target="_blank">Save The Light Bulb</a> " today. 
You have made it clear that you don't like the new CFL bulb - it doesn't work as well, it's more expensive to buy and they don't always save money on your electric bill. Equally important, the new CFL bulbs that the government is trying to force us to use raise a very real safety concern. These CFL bulbs are filled with mercury and when the bulbs break, there is a real danger to the safety of everyone in the home. 
And even worse, the light bulb ban has forced American incandescent bulb factories to close, while all the new CFLs are made overseas. 
Please stand with me. Sign my petition " <a href="http://mta.frontrunnercms.com/?r=MTAwMQ0KSjU5NTItMjAxNTI4OTMtMTJiYy00OGZkLWJhOGEtMmE1NmRhOTJlNzMxDQpjNDM4N2NiMi00NGRjLTQ0OTQtODYxZS1hYTJhNGI4YjJjZGQNCjhhMDAwMDAwYzhjYjg1DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LnZvdGVtYXJzaGEuY29tL3NhdmUtdGhlLWxpZ2h0LWJ1bGI%2Fcz02OUpXDQp0cnVlDQpqb2VzaGVkbG9ja0BnbWFpbC5jb20%3D" target="_blank">Save The Light Bulb</a> " now. 
Thanks for your support, 
Marsha Blackburn 
------------------------------------ 
She has a link (or two) that is a mile long. It resolves to: <a href="http://www.votemarsha.com/save-the-light-bulb?s=69JW" target="_blank">http://www.votemarsha.com/save-the-light-bulb?s=69JW</a> 
The only thing I have a problem with on her petition is she is blaming "liberal Democrats" for the ban, although George W. Bush signed the bill and though people like me--who might be labelled a "liberal Democrat"--never consented to this nor were asked about it. I had never even heard of this ban until the last few days. 
By the way, I have not gotten any e-mail supporting this ban, although I regularly hear from "liberal" organizations. So who is supporting this ban? ETA: Her link was reproduced in the material I quoted. I'm surprised. I thought it would be stripped out.

Fatman · Jul 12, 2011

as far as lights being whited out, it would be very easy to have a small 50 watt heater installed in the fixtures that would only be turned on when snow was falling to keep them clear. 
Yes it would burn extra energy, but only during the actual snow fall, the rest of the time it would not be needed. 
They can control all the lights from a central computer now, they could certainly add a switch for heat.

obankobi · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Hazelnut <a href="/forum/post/2937224"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I'm hating this trend. 
I've already started stockpiling bulbs and sockets. 
For me, it's not a matter or energy or heat... Fluorescent bulbs, and LED lights trigger my migraines if they are in my field of vision. In a commercial building, the fluorescent bulbs are way up high. But in a home, they are directly in your line of vision as you look about the room. 
I don't know what I'm going to do! 
I don't have to deal with migraines, and I don't even need medication for them. but, if I have to spend a few hours in someone's home with those special-weshal energy efficient bulbs, I'll have to start eating aspirin and Tylenol like they're candy.</div>
</div>
 
I had no idea people reacted that way to those lights. Perhaps some rethinking is needed. Can't have people going around suffering like that for the sake of "being green". Perhaps it shouldn't be a law that applies to private homes. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Joe <a href="/forum/post/2937267"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I don't know where you get your "licking the broken bulb" statement from. 
According to the article, the Environmental Protection Agency’s “maximum contaminant level” is 0.002 milligrams per liter, so one CFL bulb has 500 to 2000 times this amount. 
The chart you present does not take into account the fuel source of electric power. Some areas of the country use fuels that produce much more mercury contamination, some much less. 
Actually, although he mentions traffic lights, most of his discussion relates to street lights. 
(Emphasis added.)</div>
</div>
 
I get my licking from the fact that mercury is extremely heavy, and would not be in the air unless the bulb broke above the ground. Even then, not for long. 
As for the streetlights, he is talking about traffic lights. I bolded for emphasis. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">This means that the snow and ice that normally melt on contact with a hot, Edison-style streetlight or traffic signal instead coat LED fixtures. Street lights get whited out, “a problem blamed for dozens of accidents and at least one death,” Ramde explained. how would not being able to see the lights alone a road lead to accidents This situation caused Duane Kassens, a Wisconsin driver, to get into a fender-bender. “The police officer told me the new lights weren’t melting the snow,” Kassens said. “How is that safe?” again, that sounds like traffic signals 
In April 2009, Illinois officials say, motorist Lisa Richter began a left turn. Because of snow obstruction, an oncoming driver who could not see an LED-driven streetlight smashed into Richter, killing her at age 34. Indisputably a traffic signal. 
“Would the accident have occurred if the lights had been clear?” Oswego police detective Rob Sherwood told the AP. “I would be willing to bet not.” 
Several jurisdictions have addressed this challenge by retrofitting street lights with heating elements, such as those used on airport runway lights. This burns more energy — reducing the LEDs’ chief benefit.</div>
</div>
 
I can see where you got confused though, most people refer to traffic lights as well, traffic lights, not street lights.

Hazelnut · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by obankobi <a href="/forum/post/2937407"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I had no idea people reacted that way to those lights. Perhaps some rethinking is needed. Can't have people going around suffering like that for the sake of "being green". Perhaps it shouldn't be a law that applies to private homes.</div>
</div>
 
I've only known a few others who are light-sensitive, but different people have different migraine triggers. For me, its lights. Flashing lights trigger my migraines. When a light is very sharp, intense, and localized to a specific spot, and my eyes pass across it a few times, it may as well be flashing. 
I'm all for people going green. But it should really be a choice. Put a sin-tax on incandescent bulbs like tobacco and alcohol. I'll drive a half hour and pay a few dollars per bulb just to be able to keep using them and remain pain-free in my own home!!!

obankobi · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Hazelnut <a href="/forum/post/2937418"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I've only known a few others who are light-sensitive, but different people have different migraine triggers. For me, its lights. Flashing lights trigger my migraines. When a light is very sharp, intense, and localized to a specific spot, and my eyes pass across it a few times, it may as well be flashing. 
I'm all for people going green. But it should really be a choice. Put a sin-tax on incandescent bulbs like tobacco and alcohol. I'll drive a half hour and pay a few dollars per bulb just to be able to keep using them and remain pain-free in my own home!!!</div>
</div>
 
Perhaps they could have a "pass" of sorts, that your doctor signs and gets people like you out of any excess tax? Probably a hassle though, just a thought.

Joe · Jul 12, 2011

The compact fluorescent lights allegedly emit high frequency sounds that are above the hearing range of human beings, but will annoy/torture pets like dogs and cats. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Fluorescent lights need a spike in voltage to start that gas on its way so older versions used a magnetic ballast to handle the spike and then control the current. These ballasts created a 100 Hz frequency that caused the 'flicker' (and hum) that made people dislike them. 
Modern CFLs use an electronic ballast and for better efficiency convert to a much higher frequency, such as 25 kHz. This eliminates the flicker and even the hum associated with the old models because that 25 kHz is outside human hearing range. But guess whose hearing range it is in? <img alt="" src="http://www.scienceandsupermodels.com/pictures/hearing%20range.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"> 
Yeah, everything on the planet. 
The big question is, of course, do they emit any ultrasound? I don't have a tunable ultrasound detector but David Pye at University of London does. 
He tested two low energy bulbs; U-shaped and coiled. The U-shaped bulb emitted at a fundamental frequency of 27 kHz and a coiled type at 37 kHz. Both had strong acoustic signals at the second harmonics (54 kHz and 74 kHz, respectively) and appreciable signals at the third harmonics (81 kHz and 11.1 kHz), he wrote. 
Now, rats and mice are not such a big deal. If anything, these could be passive pest control for those critters. But those signals are easily within the hearing range of numerous pets - especially cats.</div>
</div>
 <a href="http://www.science20.com/science_amp_supermodels/cfl_bulbs_save_planet_make_your_pets_insane" target="_blank">http://www.science20.com/science_amp...ur_pets_insane</a>

obankobi · Jul 12, 2011

They could certainly test it by replacing bulbs in a few hundred homes and seeing if their pets act differently.

Spang · Jul 12, 2011

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But incandescent light bulbs have not been, nor will they be, banned (at least not by the legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by George W. Bush in 2007). The efficiency standards have changed, that's it. Your light bulbs, incandescent or otherwise, are going to be more efficient, saving you money.

Soyabean · Jul 12, 2011

In the UK we have a EU ban on old-style lightbulbs on it's way. 
As well as the mercury released if you break an energy efficient bulb, it was recently reported in a national newspaper here that energy saving bulbs have been found to give off small amounts of carcinogens simply by being turned on - don't know how reliable the report was, or what the levels are, but it annoyed some people (although some people over here love to get annoyed at anything they perceive as being forced on us by Europe, and the report was in a particularly anti-EU newspaper)

Beetlejuice · Jul 12, 2011

<div class="quote-container">deleted</div>

Hazelnut · Jul 13, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Spang <a href="/forum/post/2938226"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But incandescent light bulbs have not been, nor will they be, banned (at least not by the legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by George W. Bush in 2007). The efficiency standards have changed, that's it. Your light bulbs, incandescent or otherwise, are going to be more efficient, saving you money.</div>
</div>
 
Can you please direct me/us to that information? 
It's very important to me. 
Thanks!

Spang · Jul 13, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Hazelnut <a href="/forum/post/2938465"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Can you please direct me/us to that information? 
It's very important to me. 
Thanks!</div>
</div>
 <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/business/energy-environment/12bulb.html?_r=1" target="_blank">As</a> <a href="http://mediamatters.org/blog/201106070026" target="_blank">you</a> <a href="http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/07/how-many-republicans-does-it-take-change-light-bulb" target="_blank">wish</a>.

obankobi · Jul 14, 2011

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Spang <a href="/forum/post/2938226"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But incandescent light bulbs have not been, nor will they be, banned (at least not by the legislation passed by Congress and signed into law by George W. Bush in 2007). The efficiency standards have changed, that's it. Your light bulbs, incandescent or otherwise, are going to be more efficient, saving you money.</div>
</div>
 
They won't so much be banned, as they will cease to be made, eventually. 
Florescents and LED's are far more efficient than incandescents. CFL's are 3-4 times more efficient, and LED's are around 6 times more efficient. That efficiency translates to less energy requirements, lower power bills, and less pollution.

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