VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 64 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a continuation of Kreeli's thread really, and I am giving Kreeli the credit (and thanks) for starting a discussion about fat, even though she doesn't want to discuss certain issues surrounding fat.<br><br><br><br>
So, this will be an open thread. No discussions or opinions will be deleted. I don't intend the 'mood' of the thread to be a debate, but a real discussion about the issues surrounding fat in our society. Whether it be fat prejudice, your own fears of becoming fat, or the current epidemic of obesity in our country. However if it becomes a debate, it can certainly be moved to the compost heap.<br><br><br><br>
I will give you background on myself as it applies to the discussion, but this isn't meant to be about me. I'm 5'7", and weight 165. I'm a size 10-12. I jog occasionally, do yoga, am a single parent, work full time, and eat well and often. I come from a family of compulsive overeaters. We like to eat a lot of junk until we're really really full...and then not eat again until the next big meal. I've had lots of therapy and help with getting myself to a state of mostly <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"> mental health. And having that therapy also had the side effect of improving my physical health. But, for most of the seven years of my marriage, I was fat.<br><br><br><br>
Soilman mentioned something in another thread about fat folks being invisible. And to be honest, that's what I felt I was...invisible. I rather liked being invisible because it took the pressure off of me to 'perform' in a certain way. When you're fat, people don't expect very much from you. And though I didn't think about it at the time, it was very comforting not having anyone expect anything from me.<br><br><br><br>
I'm concerned about the fatness of our society...as it applies to my own family, because of the health problems that accompany fatness--in some, not all people (esp in my aging parents...but also in my sister and her husband--both obese). It's crazy when I visit them. There will be only two, perhaps occasionally three meals per day...all of them HUGE and overblown with desserts. Then nothing for hours. Then another huge meal. They eat out often (four to five times a week minimum). So there's something hugely wrong. I've accepted I can love them and not try to 'fix' them. And I do accept them for who they are. This the way I was taught to eat. It's still difficult when I'm around my family to practice the moderation I've learned (but I've been successful).<br><br><br><br>
when I think about the messages that we get out of the media...the conflicting messages of eat lots of food particularly meat and dairy...but by all means, be as thin as you can for god's sake...it frankly gives me a headache.<br><br><br><br>
I try to teach my own daughter good sense when it comes to food. To listen to her stomach and body and to let enough be enough. To treat ourselves well...in all kinds of ways (not just with food), and to be healthy. I think whatever size you are, treating yourself well and being healthy and happy is just about the most important thing you can do.<br><br><br><br>
I'd like a meaningful discussion of many fat issues to come out of this. I mean isn't something really wrong? I've seen so many people so afraid of getting fat they starve themselves....and others who become obese by eating way too much food. I've seen women who struggle with their weight (many unsuccessfully) their entire lives, but are never happy. I've seen people who believe (and I've believed myself) that happiness=a magical number on a scale. I had one best friend in the Army who really did believe she would be happy if she could just loose five pounds (she looked perfect just as she was). so why all the obsession when we are so obviously so much more than what we look like? Why do we continue to believe we are what we look like?<br><br><br><br>
Okay, discuss if you're interested.<br><br><br><br>
B
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
B:<br><br><br><br>
i think it's a good idea. one of the things that is important to remember is the difference between body types (some of which we culturally identify as "fat" considering the current notions of beauty and what "thin" or "fit" looks like) and then the difference between being overweight (fat) or obese (fat with medical problems).<br><br><br><br>
here's one of the ways that i tell my yoga students, particularly the heavier ones (whether that's from being overweight, obese, or just of larger body types), is that every body is different. So, some 5-7 gals will be thin and lanky like me (124.5 lbs--where did those other 4 extra lbs go? i dunno. just lost them in two weeks. i'm confused.) and othes will be like my sister 5-7 and 145 lbs.<br><br><br><br>
my sister and i are both fit, we just have different body types. The way that i can tell is in the bones.<br><br><br><br>
Fit people, regardless of height and weight ratio, have visable joints. As a yoga instructor, i need to be able to see joints--but i often can't when people are overweight or obese. When they are fit--regardless of body type--i can see their major joints: knees, wrists, elbows. And other large bones: hip bones (generally, i can feel them in a "fit" person) and rib cage (particularly the collar bones and the lower rib cage.<br><br><br><br>
And what i mean by "see" is not the skeleton like afreaky starved person, but rather the shape of the bone structure. Some bones can be seen when the person is fit (collar bones for instance), but the shape of the rib cage is there--not the individual ribs. Heck, you can't see my ribs, and i'm 'skinny'--it is the fact that you can't see my individual ribs that indicates that i am not starving myself!<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, with fit people, i can feel their bones. With unfit (or "fat") i can not feel their bones. So, we go on the "i can see my knee caps!" standard for weight loss in the class (it is a weight loss, body loving, supportive yoga class for larger women who would be/are intimidated in other classes)> we often don't talk about diet, or exercise. WE talk about living and being happy, and learning about what we like to do and what we don't like to do. What we like to eat and what we don't like to eat.<br><br><br><br>
And ultimately, they become "fit" on their own. Since it is everyone's path.<br><br><br><br>
And, i think you're right. Like the disabled, fat people are either invisible or ostracised! it's hideous. that's why i have that special class, all members of course are welcome in any other classes!<br><br><br><br>
ramble ramble. i'll think on this more when i have more time!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's a very interesting perspective on 'fit' as opposed to oveweight/obese. Perhaps for purposes of clarity, we can refer to healthy large people as fat (and use it as a good word instead of a negative), and unhealthy large people as obese.<br><br><br><br>
It seems like you are doing great work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
i have a problem myself with being compared to my best friend...we are both of small build, but since she is short, she is thought of by everyone as cute and tiny. plus the fact that she is great at everything else too..but anyways, i am 16 yrs. old and 5'6'', and at the beginning of the school year i was 130 lbs. ive slowly lost weight, and i was 120, and recently, ive sortof having an obsession with weighing myself...im 113..<br><br><br><br>
ive never had a problem with body image before, because i was raised in a loving, supportive family who taught me to stay fit and love myself for who i am. I guess i'm just still working on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
I went to the salon weeks ago and happened across the best magazine I've ever read. All the women in it are normal sized beautiful women. I subscibed immediately. Their site is <a href="http://www.gracestyle.com." target="_blank">www.gracestyle.com.</a> It's mission is to help women live life to the fullest no matter what their size. And you can still be sexy at a size 16 damnit! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> I encourage folks to check it out.<br><br><br><br>
I've gone from starvation at age 13 to being 250+ lbs, back down to 150, up to 170 and in the past 6 years back up to 220. I'm 5'6". Funny thing is I don't feel like a fat woman most of the time. I feel unfit. It's when other people (that don't even know me) mention something about my size that I get all aware of the fact that I'm a 'big girl' and start to feel bad. Growing up though I always felt like I didn't fit and yes, somewhat invisible, so I always tried extra hard to fit in with my peers. The only group that seemed like they accepted me was the other outcasts..you know, the "troublemakers" (well, we called them 'burnouts'). So, I ended up hanging out with the wrong crowd and ended up in a heap of trouble. If I was thinner would I have ended up in the same crowd? Probably not; but who knows for sure. But I do know that I carried around a ton of mental baggage due to my weight growing up when I was a kid and how the other kids treated me. I walked around most of the time like a powder keg ready to explode before I made my peace with it. Kids can be so heartless sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Thank you Bethanie. I was going to start this same thread in response to some of the things you said in Kreeli's thread. I can totally relate to what you said about fat people being invisible. When I got pregnant with my second daughter, I weighed 190 (I'm 5'5") Before that, the smallest I had ever been in my adult life was a size 12/14. After highschool, my weight just went up slowly until I was 190 and wearing an 18/20. My second daughter is now 15 months old and I weigh 123. I wear a 6/8. I never even intended to lose this much weight. I have been vegetarian for years but finally cut out most dairy. I started eating healthy and, yes, low-fat. I found I had so much energy so I started working out regulary. Now I work out every day. I do yoga, I run, and I do aerobics.<br><br><br><br>
The thing is, I never realized I was invisible until I lost weight. No one ever said mean things to me (maybe I wasn't "fat enough" to warrant overt harrassment?) but the way people treat me now is so much different. People make eye contact with me more often. Men hold the door for me. People smile more. It's really bizarre. I've even noticed some negative attention. From other women! Of course women who don't know me probably assume I'm one of those horrible skinny women who can eat anything and stay skinny. I have honestly felt some hostility from other women. That makes me sad. I wonder if I was hostile to other women before I lost weight?<br><br><br><br>
The other thing about me...I'm married to a fat man. My husband is 5' 11" and he weighs over 300lbs. He is also the most caring, considerate, amazing person on the planet. He is not as physically active as he ought to be and he doesn't eat the healthiest diet, but he doesn't eat more/worse than most "average weight" people. This is something he has struggled with his entire life. I do worry about his health. I want to have a long happy life with my husband. The other thing that makes me sad is that, even though he is outwardly supportive of anything I do, I honestly think he liked my body better when I was fat.<br><br><br><br>
I also have two beautiful daughters who are average sized for their ages (3.5 and 15 months.) I worry about them. I don't want them to be fat because of the way our society views fat people and I don't want them to have health problems. Most of all I want them to love themselves, be strong and active, and have a positive relationship with food. My husband and I have talked about it and agree that fat women are treated much worse in this society than fat men. Women are judged so much on appearance and with two daughters, I so want them to know that they are much more than that. It's very hard.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, that's my story!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the link ms ruthie b! I'll have to go and take a look at that. You know, there was nothing more wonderful than finding the place my body was supposed to be (set weight), and finally being able to shop at 'regular sized' people stores. One problem when I was big (240 at my largest) was finding clothes that fit, or even wanting to go shopping (at the specialty women's shops, or large sized women's section). Do they realy NEED to divide large sized women's clothes out? I always wondered this. Why couldn't large sized women just shop with all the other women? Will the fat rub off? One store in Seattle where I shopped for a wedding outfit actually had large sized women located in the basement with the maternity and preteen girls clothes. While the 'regular sized' women's clothes were on the first floor and took up the ENTIRE floor. This was an upscale department store (nordstroms). I felt that entire shopping trip as if I'd been exiled <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
pickletatertot...I had the same experience as you. Even now (I've been at the same regular sized weight for a year and a half now), people make eye contact or look in my direction and I think I must have something on my face (a booger, spinach in my teeth <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">)...because for so long, people purposely looked AWAY.<br><br><br><br>
You know, though, I DON'T worry about my daughter's weight and I don't worry about it on purpose. My dad spent my childhood as an obese man worried about MY weight. When I was six he made the comment "You will always struggle with your weight." What a pronouncement. YIKES. I've never forgotten he said that, though I'm sure he has. I was a regular sized, and very ACTIVE outdoorsy tomboyish sort of kid. But his comments and worry triggered a late teens early twenties weight obsession that I am glad to be on the other end of. With my own daughter I just teach her to eat healthy foods and trust her to stop when she's done/full. We make a big deal out of the outdoors and going to parks. She's so strong and fit for her age it blows me away. We have a no tv/computer during the week rule. And we spend most of our evenings 'doing' rather than watching.<br><br><br><br>
I think that's really the best you can do...teach them healthy habits and then hope/pray they're strong enough to withstand all the crap they'll get out there.<br><br><br><br>
Okay, gotta dash.<br><br><br><br>
B
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,481 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Do they realy NEED to divide large sized women's clothes out? I always wondered this. Why couldn't large sized women just shop with all the other women? Will the fat rub off?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I thought it was just me who wondered this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)">
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
10,763 Posts
zoebird writes:<br><br>
=========================<br><br>
...difference between body types...<br><br><br><br>
Fit people, regardless of height and weight ratio, have visable joints. ... i need to be able to see joints--but i often can't when people are [too fat]. When they are [well-fatted, as opposed to mal-fatted] -- regardless of body type -- i can see their major joints: knees, wrists, elbows. And other large bones: hip bones (generally, i can feel them in a "fit" person) and rib cage (particularly the collar bones and the lower rib cage.<br><br>
===================<br><br><br><br>
Yup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
I totally agree about them dividing the Women's sizes from the regular Misses sizes. It is so nice to go in to any store now and know they will have my size. I don't know why they can't have all the sizes together. In fact, when I started losing weight, I remember thinking my goal would be to get to a size 14 since that's the biggest size most "regular" stores carry. I so wanted to be able to walk in to any store and know I could find my size on the rack in the regular section.<br><br><br><br>
Some more observations, now that I have lost weight, people act like it's my responsibility to make my husband lose weight too. I have had several people ask about this. I want no part of it, he's a grown up and we have a relationship on equal footing. I am not his mom! His real mom, however, made me the maddest. She actually said, "Now that you've lost weight, we need to work on getting him to." Like she and I should conspire to make him eat healthier and exercise more. I was so insulted (for me and him!) This is coming from a woman who probably weighs 110 herself, but lives on diet sodas, cookies, and smokes 2 packs of cigarettes a day! She has the nerve to tell him all the time that she is worried about his health. I better stop on this rant because I have many other complaints about this woman that don't exactly fit in with this thread! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/whack.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":whack:"><br><br><br><br>
Like I said, most of the attention I get now is positive. But I have also had people ask me if I have been sick and make comments that I must not ever eat (I eat a lot!!!) It's so strange to have gone through this process and see the stereotypes on both sides.<br><br><br><br>
Bethanie, thank you for the words of wisdom about raising your daughter. You know how it is to love someone so much and only want the best for them. I grew up with a mom who was very small but was always dieting and commenting on how fat she was. I was bigger than my mom at age 11 so I thought, "Wow, if she's fat, I must be huge!" My girls are young enough now that they haven't been overly affected by the messages our society sends women about their bodies. My 3 year old wants to be big and strong and she's very confident and active. I hope she can stay that way!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Well I fear ebcoming fat, but you already probably know that. I get mad becasue my brother eats snything (not much, though) and weighs about 160 for a 6'1" guy, he's fine. I am 5'6 1/2" and about 135-140 don't know for sure, and I feel I look fat. I know why, though. IT is because of genetics. My entire family has this "belly" and it is prominent in me a lot more because I was fat, so my spine developed all "outward" so I look like I'm sticking my stomach out. IT sucks becasue all I want to look like is my brother. Or neo from the matrix. Then my mom always complains about wishing she was skinnier, even though people say they are jealous of her. She tells me when people say this, she thinks "well, I have to WORK at it". Well, "working" at it means barelty eating, which depresses me. Yesterday at dinner she said "all I ate was a bagel today" to my dad to convince him that she needs to cook a good meal, instead of salad (my dad does not really eat much either, except one meal, or two, and he had already eaten a big lunch, so he though salad was ok). So then I say "why didn't you eat more?" "I did not have the time" "You could have packed a lunch" "I'm too busy to stop and eat" "Sigh... O.K.".... Whatever, I'm still upset abuot it. Whoa, this is probably better for the eat to live page, but whatever.<br><br><br><br>
I was fat when I was about 7-14 (when I started drastically losing) and now I'm a sortof normal weight. But when I was fat, I was so embarassed. I was teased, called "fat ass" by all the "good" looking 7th and 8th graders. In four square, they would be extra mean to me, because of my weight. One guy shoved my face down, becasue I tried to take the ball from him,as he cheated so I was getting him back I guess. I'll always remember how much it sucked. One time I could not hang around with my friend and borther because they wanted me to leave because I was farting. Everyone yelled at me for that. I never could get proper pants, I always wore sweat pants or something. I tried the "husky" pants, that depressed me even more. People are so mean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
I would like to add that when my mom does eat, it is a lot. Just she eats like barely nothing during the day, but dinner is huge and afterward she snacks until sleep...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,451 Posts
well, there is a problem between saying "larger people" are "fat" and "unfit" are "obese" because "unfit" people could just be 'overweight' which is differnt from obese. it's a difference in degree, and to some extent, a great, big degree.<br><br><br><br>
SO, i think som eother words would work:<br><br><br><br>
fit, yet large or curvy: Round? curvy? large?<br><br>
unfit, yet not obese: overweight?<br><br>
unfit and obese: obese?<br><br><br><br>
maybe those would work better.<br><br><br><br>
And veggie girlie, i'm a bit concerned that you may be underweight. at your age, you are still growing and should still be gaining weight. You may want to check out a dietician to make sure that you're getting enough nutrients and make sure that you're getting the right amount of exercise. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
OK, back to reading. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,049 Posts
i don't see a problem with the word "fat", if that is what a person is. fat is fat. if a person has voluptuous hips, big boobs or a rolly stomach or both, even if they are fit, they are still fat. there is no such thing as "big boned", but there is such a thing as a larger frame.<br><br><br><br>
someone could be 6'1 and large-framed and weight a lot and not be fat. that person could be accurately described as large. they could also be fit, or unfit, depending on their lifestyle. this is my aunt-in-law, who is over six feet tall and wide, but there isn't a spare inch of fat to be pinched on her at all, though she does have to shop at the "big and tall" shops and wears only a size or two smaller than i do.<br><br><br><br>
someone could be very full-formed, and not be fat. they could be accurately described as voluptuous or curvy. they could also be fit, or unfit, depending on their lifestyle. this describes my bellydancing teacher, who is extremely fit but very curvy and short and full-bosomed. she has a "jiggle" when she dances, but it isn't because she's actually fat, she's just got more "oomph" than most women her size.<br><br><br><br>
obese and overweight are offensive terms to me. even people that you would typically call "obese" can still be fit. they are just more fat than maybe you'd like. the people that you call "obese" may or may not have health problems. "overweight" implies that there is some correct weight that we should all be, which is not true. we are all meant to be different sizes, body shapes, and types, and it is a fact that some of us are born with more, or larger, fat cells than others.<br><br><br><br>
if we are going to talk about health problems in the fat, can we please simply refer to them as "fat and unfit" or "fat and unhealthy", and vice versa for the thin people we know who are unfit and unhealthy? it is certainly a more accurate, less offensive way to describe people of different levels of health and body size.<br><br><br><br>
i am thinking very hard about what parts of my story as a fat person i want to share with you all. to tell all of it (because i've been self-identifying as fat since i was a young girl) would take a long time. but it's hard to leave things out since they are all integral to where i am now, as a grown woman with years of fat experience (mostly bad, some good) under her belt.<br><br><br><br>
i do appreciate that this conversation is being had.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,914 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Zoebird...when I refer to obese, I guess what I really mean is those of us who have compusively eaten ourselves up to an obese size.<br><br><br><br>
When I think of obese, that is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about simply slightly large and unfit. I'm talking about obesity which is the direct result of compulsive overreating. I will continue using that term when referring to myself (as I was) and my family (as they are). I hope everyone can accept that. I think to try and make this condition sound like other than it is (to paint it a prettier color) is a form of denial...and I choose not to live there. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
So to clarify, that is what I'm talking about. I would not use that term on anyone here, as I don't know anyone here well enough to make that judgement. But I will use it where it fits in my own experience.<br><br><br><br>
B
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
0 Posts
I hope so too Bethanie. I believe I have some issues this may help me with..issues I didn't even know I had. You know how when something is wrong and you feel it but you don't quite know what it is that's making you feel that way? A few things I've read I can relate to. And to think, even though I knew there was other plump people around, somehow I always felt so alone; like I was the only one. I believed for years growing up that there was something dreadfully wrong with me and how I was made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
What a great topic! There is so much self-righteousness in the "progressive" *cough* community when it comes to weight issues. A lot of veg*ns make the false assumption that all fat people eat at McDonald's and drive SUVs, and that veg*ns are in perfect shape and are therefore superior. Bah!<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by bethanie</i><br><br><b><br><br>
You know, though, I DON'T worry about my daughter's weight and I don't worry about it on purpose. My dad spent my childhood as an obese man worried about MY weight. When I was six he made the comment "You will always struggle with your weight." What a pronouncement. YIKES. I've never forgotten he said that, though I'm sure he has. I was a regular sized, and very ACTIVE outdoorsy tomboyish sort of kid. But his comments and worry triggered a late teens early twenties weight obsession that I am glad to be on the other end of. With my own daughter I just teach her to eat healthy foods and trust her to stop when she's done/full. We make a big deal out of the outdoors and going to parks. She's so strong and fit for her age it blows me away. We have a no tv/computer during the week rule. And we spend most of our evenings 'doing' rather than watching.<br><br></b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
Ooh, this triggers so many emotions. You are doing the right thing by encouraging your daughter to listen to her body. I love my mother dearly but I inherited her food issues. I wish I could've "seen the light" earlier in my life but I've learned a lot from my experiences. I'll post more when I have time to be coherent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,146 Posts
From <a href="http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/030610a.asp" target="_blank">this interview with Kimberley Locke</a>:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><br>
TVGO: What do fans say to you most often?<br><br>
Locke: I do get a lot of young girls saying to me, "You really don't know what you've done and how you've made us feel." From my outside appearance, I'm not what you normally see on the front cover of a magazine. I'm very real. I'm not the perfect size eight. There's a lot of young girls out there who just needed that role model, like, "She's a lot like me. I can do it too."<br><br><br><br>
TVGO: AI fans have written us, praising your weight loss. But do you feel there's been any dramatic change?<br><br>
Locke: (Exasperated) Please tell them that I have not lost any weight at all. Maybe I have lost some inches, but I haven't lost any weight. Being on TV makes you look so different. I've had people come up and tell me, "You look much prettier in person than you are on TV." And then, people think I've lost weight. I haven't. It's about different camera angles, and the clothes you wear. You have to wear the right cuts, the right fit and all of that, so it makes a big difference.<br><br><br><br>
TVGO: Indeed. It's hard for viewers at home to tell...<br><br>
Locke: But I've never been a fat girl! People make it sound like I weighed 300 lbs. and I never have. I'm just not what they're used to seeing. So, whatever.<br><br><br><br>
TVGO: Do you follow any sort of diet regimen?<br><br>
Locke: I don't diet. I exercise when I have time, but right now I don't have too much time for anything!<br></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I'll admit, I honestly thought she'd lost weight, too. But her stylists were just dressing her in more flattering outfits. Now, I know next to nothing about fashion, but when I started wearing clothes that fit me properly, I looked a lot better. My point is, so many people think good-looking = weight loss, but the truth us, you don't have to lose weight to look good. It's about the whole package.
 
1 - 20 of 64 Posts
Top