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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thanks to vegan porn for the link.<br><br>
I think the comments there sum up my feelings rather well - so I won't add any comments.<br><br><a href="http://www.veganporn.com/documents.pl?mode=show&docid=1043932976&forumid=1" target="_blank">http://www.veganporn.com/documents.p...2976&forumid=1</a><br><br><br><br>
The article:<br><br><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,884227,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0...884227,00.html</a><br><br><br><br><i>'Delicious!'<br><br><br><br>
Rachael Oliveck was a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist for 14 years. But on Christmas Day she finally cracked, and tucked into some turkey - and she hasn't looked back since<br><br><br><br>
Wednesday January 29, 2003<br><br>
The Guardian<br><br><br><br>
It wasn't specifically the thought of roast turkey that changed my mind, but this year's Christmas dinner was notable for marking the moment I gave up vegetarianism after 14 long, virtuous years. And, to save me answering the same three questions over and over again, yes it was delicious, no my body didn't seize up in shock and, yes, I have eaten meat at least once a day since.<br><br><br><br>
Apparently, I'm in good company, Madonna and Julia Sawalha have both given up being veggie lately (and if it's good enough for Julia Sawalha, it's certainly good enough for me). I originally gave up meat for ethical reasons, and have always missed the taste of it. As an animal-rights activist, I was primarily concerned about the conditions of animals reared for meat, and I was also put off by the routine feeding of antibiotics and growth hormones to livestock.<br><br><br><br>
In 1989 these were not widely understood views, and spreading the word on animal cruelty was perceived as scaremongering at best and downright bonkers and unnatural at worst. Being vegetarian was solely the preserve of the crank, hippy and the misguided but well-intentioned teenage girl. Supermarkets stocked "veggie grills" (yellowish, cutlet-shaped minced vegetables) which were a barbecue staple in the summer, and restaurants routinely offered plates of vegetables as the meat-free option.<br><br><br><br>
Since then, meat, and indeed food production, has changed enormously, as have eating habits in general. Humanely reared meat is widely available, eating less meat is the norm, supermarkets offer huge veggie ranges and restaurants have wised up to what non-meat eaters want (although goat's cheese tart with a red pepper coulis remains horribly ubiquitous). Following the public furore surrounding BSE and to a lesser extent the foot-and-mouth outbreak, the horrors of modern meat production have become widely known, and vegetarians feel they have been proved right. Meat is now much more traceable and, it is hoped, of higher quality. The public now realise that cheap food, in the form of mechanically recovered meat or intensively produced meat, has a far higher cost. In one sense then, I feel the battle has been won.<br><br><br><br>
That said, I wish I was noble enough to claim that it was simply a question of ethics. If I am honest, it was just as much a question of gluttony. I have always loved food, and my cookbook obsession was being stalled by my (ever more resentful) refusal to eat meat. I had taken to staring at the meat sections of my favourite Nigel Slater book and watching food programmes in a desperate attempt to sate a growing desire for the flesh of defenceless animals. Meat didn't repel me any more. I wanted to eat it, wanted to cook it, wanted to fill my kitchen with the smell of a garlic-roasted chicken. And, in the end, after a conversation with the only meat-eating member of my household, I realised that I was no longer making a principled stand that I was proud of, I was simply missing out. My stomach may have been meat-free but, in my heart I was a ravenous carnivore. And that was that.<br><br><br><br>
So, along with the nut roast, I had turkey and ham. And sausages and bacon. And the next day my mother welcomed me back into the fold with sausage casserole. And it continued. My meat-eating friends are delighted for me, although many of them still find it odd to watch me eating animal flesh. As far as cooking meat is concerned, I have less kitchen expertise than a first-year student just off to university, and I am enjoying learning anew. My pork in marsala sauce was, frankly, a triumph. And, having given up meat so long ago, I am very much enjoying catching up on everything I have missed. Food trends have moved on massively in 14 years and I want to taste it all. The only difficulty so far was parma ham, which tasted slightly raw and chewy, but I think that might have been simply a case of too much too soon. I have yet to eat a Big Mac (although a Whopper went down a treat); KFC is delicious, and also very addictive. Spaghetti bolognese tastes infinitely better with real meat, and nothing can compare to the relief that comes from a bacon sandwich when suffering a hangover. And, if we are talking base desires (which the craving for meat surely is), eating meat is, quite simply, sexier than chick peas and tofu. It implies a lust for life, a healthy appetite, and a hot-blooded, racy, taste for flesh. It is no coincidence that fiery-tempered Latin countries with reputations for passion think vegetarianism is a bizarre anomaly. Why deny yourself?<br><br><br><br>
I cannot imagine that I will ever go back to vegetarianism, but I used to think I would never eat meat again. I am hoping, however, that my diet will balance out, and I will be able to combine meat and meat-free. What is undeniable is that the physical effects of eating meat have been striking; I have more energy, feel much better and, according to friends, I look much healthier. I went back to meat for reasons of taste, to be able to enjoy roast meat, chargrilled steak, braised lamb, and I am pretty sure that, had my choices been restricted to cheap, greyish cuts and mechanically recovered meat I would have stuck with the vegetables and soya.<br><br><br><br>
Some ethical principles remain - so far I have tried to buy humanely-reared meat wherever possible (with the obvious exception of my new fast-food habit, and yes I have read Fast Food Nation, thanks). I still find the idea of veal or foie gras distasteful, and doubt I will be tempted by them for some while yet. I don't feel as if I failed at vegetarianism, or that I have condemned poor ickle animals to a life of ending misery to satisfy my stomach. We are all much better informed as consumers now, and the rise in popularity of organics, for example, shows how shopping wisely has a huge influence on food production. Essentially though, I did not go back to make a point, but for my own selfish, personal satisfaction, and I am sure other meat-returnees would say the same thing.</i>
 

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I do know a reformed vegan...after many years (like 17) of being vegan, she decided to become "more vegetarian now"<br><br><br><br>
I think she just got tired of being a "freak" but I can't help but see the decision is based on weakness. I have been so outspoken about the issue in my own life, that if I ever "went back" I would have to each so much crow, it wouldn't be funny.<br><br><br><br>
The woman in the article totally disgusts me!
 

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The power we have as humans to rationalize anything amazes me. That was pathetic! She should have left it at the first and last sentence, everything in between was total BS.
 

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I've met more ex-veg*ns while attending college than you could shake a stick at, not to mention that half the omnis whom i met & found out that i was veg just had to mention that they had a friend who was a vegetarian who ate fish and/or chicken. I even had an ex-veg for a roommate once, although some would say that she was veg as she "only" ate chicken. I got stuck with another roommate once who claimed to be ex-veg, even though she admitted to eating fish & birds at the time - her excuse for reverting was because being veg was too hard (when you're eating birds and fish? give me a f'ing break!) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">, and that she really, really like beef and needed it for iron anyway. Ugh!<br><br><br><br>
I have a hard time believing that the author of that article was ever seriously interested in AR, if anything, she just had a minor interest in animal welfare. I just can see anyone with a serious AR interest wanting to put the satisfaction of her taste buds before the life of a living animal, no matter how good of a life that animal lived.<br><br><br><br>
And meat is sexy? Sure, if you're into necrophilia.<br><br><br><br>
This person just makes me sick - if you don't want to be veg any more, fine, I can live with that, just don't go writing idiotic articles in some sorry excuse to try to justify your choice.<br><br>
I read an article very similar to this one a couple years back - i can't remember the name of the site now for the life of me, it was some women's oriented magazine site of some sort. From what i remember, that article was even worse than this one - in that one the author went as far as to bash veg*ns as extremist loonies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think that sometimes teenagers become vegetarian for the shock value and to get attention. Then when everyone accepts the fact they are veg and it no longer gets them attention they go back to being omnivore and then they get attention for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
i could /never/ eat meat! ewwwwww.<br><br>
i really cant believe her, if she cares about AR at all, how can she eat meat? it's baffling! i have a friend who used to be veggie but started eating meat after another friend made her a chicken stir-fry.....he'd been trying to convert her for ages. how can these people do this? i also have a few "veggie" friends who regularily eat gelatine.
 

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I've known a few ex-vegetarians.<br><br>
One of them turned back to the dark side because of the cost of not eating meat (has always been cheaper for me).<br><br>
Another turned back because "Cows get killed anyway". Yes, that's how she justifies it.<br><br><br><br>
Ex-vegetarians sicken me more than omnivores.<br><br><br><br>
I often try to imagine eating meat once again (or even drinking Cow's milk)..... there's no way I could.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by ObsidianZebra</i><br><br><b>I have a hard time believing that the author of that article was ever seriously interested in AR, if anything, she just had a minor interest in animal welfare.</b></div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I agree. AW people often try and claim they're AR activists because it makes them sound "cooler."<br><br><br><br>
No one, and I mean no one, who was seriously into AR could say, <i>"the battle has been won."</i><br><br><br><br>
No one, and I mean no one, can claim to believe in AR and eat dead animals.<br><br><br><br>
She probably volunteered at a local pet shelter (the extent of her "animal rights activism"), and ate fish. Hell, she admits in her little diatribe that it was mostly a matter of gluttony, and that she only "cared" that the flesh industry whisper sweet nothings about how the animals lived "Good lives" before they were slaughtered to feed her gluttony.<br><br><br><br>
That's not an AR activist. That's a wannabe AW activist.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
One person has made a decision in favor of self-interest rather than the greater good. This seems all too common, and hardly news-worthy. For her, AR is a gray, rather than black and white issue. We could all do more, but we generally find a balance with our own interests. She apparantly found her balance a little further back than most people here.<br><br><br><br>
It's strange though. For the first two years, I'd get tempted by the smell of cooked meat, and maybe want to sneak a value meal at the local Jack in the Box. For the past year, however, the smell and appearance of it has only disgusted me. And if I inadvertently end up eat meat due to a mixed up order, it gives me an upset stomach.
 

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I've observed three types of ex-vegetarians:<br><br>
1) People (usually teenage girls) who used veg*nism to hide an eating disorder (then they recover and blame their e.d. on veg*ism. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:"> )<br><br>
2) People who are malnourished whose "vegetarian" diet consisted of little more than junk food.<br><br>
3) Lazy people.
 

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i met an ex-vegan a while ago. he was making fun of me for being vegan, saying how my veggie burger looked like crap and wouldn't i rather a beef burger etc. then one of his friends piped up with "hey you used to be vegan so shut up" he just laughed and said "yeah. USED to be"<br><br>
his reason for going back to omni was that it was too hard.<br><br><br><br>
oh yeah, real hard <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><b>I have always loved food, and my cookbook obsession was being stalled by my (ever more resentful) refusal to eat meat.</b></div>
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<br><br><br>
This just made me laugh out of atonishment in its pettiness. WTF?
 

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there's actually an entire website dedicated to the ex-veg*n. beyondveg.com<br><br><br><br>
i go there to read sometimes and i find a lot of the articles pretty interesting.
 

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I feel so sorry for the woman who wrote that article. It seems as though her willpower, what of it there was, had run its course after 14 years. I wonder what other beliefs she had held that she has since abandoned. It would be awful to live like that-- to believe in something and one day use the most selfish justification such as taste to excuse backsliding. Or to simply embrace weak reasons for doing something so that it's easy to regress.<br><br><br><br>
I've been told way too many stories of people who were once veg*n but have since regressed. It's usually when people hear for the first time that I'm a veggie; they feel like they have to bring up their neighbor's cousin's mother's son's aunt who didn't stick with it. A coworker of mine where I worked two years ago told me that she had been a vegetarian for several years, but then she caved in over ribs. She ate a whole rack of ribs, she told me, and declared that she would never be vegetarian again.<br><br><br><br>
Two nights ago a classmate (who has never been particularly sensitive about my veg*nism, but its just her personality) came up to class (in which nothing had been said about veg*nism or even animals) and she proceeded to gleefully tell me a story of her cousin who had been a vegetarian who ate chicken and fish, but over the holidays had caved in for ham. Supposedly this relative is back to being a full-blown meat-eater.<br><br><br><br>
I almost felt like telling her the story of how my cousin "converted", too, and it would make her equally frustrated to hear how my cousin ditched Catholicism in favor of another denomination. This classmate doesn't take any what-for on Catholicism; I'd just want her to know how it feels to bring up useless stories in an attempt to debase someone's convictions.
 

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i don't know if it can be blamed on lack of willpower. i don't find i need any sort of willpower to avoid eating meat. knowing all the horrible stuff about it is enough to keep me from even trying to remember the taste. the smell of meat grosses me out. i'd like to think that in 14 years that won't change and i won't suddenly say "du-uhhhh meat is good for you, veganism is stupid, what was i thinking, pass the pork"<br><br>
like did this woman do ANY research before becoming, and while being, veg?
 

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I had been a vegetarian for about 4 years, when an old friend got in contact with me. The conversation was going nicely when I told her that I was a vegetarian and she said, "Oh, yeah...I went through that phase, too...like ten years ago."<br><br><br><br>
Her attitude was "Been there, done that"<br><br>
Needless to say, our friendship didn't pick up where it had left off.
 

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Didn't we have a topic a long time ago about former veggies, in particular ones who had been here? If I remember correctly, Michael posted something about a particular individual (I don't recall who) who had reverted to omni-ism after being veg, and there were a number of VBers who condemned her. I wasn't around when that all happened, but I think Michael mentioned it since my time.
 

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That sounds vaguely familiar but I can't remember who it was. If I get bored tonight, which is a distinct possibility, I'll see if I can dig that one up. I did clear out some messages a few months ago so it could be gone. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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No biggie. It was just a vague recollection from my earliest days here. My gracious, that seems like a LONG time ago!
 

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what does it matter to anybody but her what she eats?<br><br><br><br>
just eat whatever is in line with your personal beliefs and stop calling people who are different from you names. seriously, i have heard a lot of veg*n's here say that they are sick of having to justify why they are veg*n- well, non-veg*n's don't have to justify why they eat meat or started to eat meat after being veg*n.<br><br><br><br>
and i don't feel this way just because i eat meat. i would feel the same way if it were reversed.
 
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