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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm dirt poor at the minute, in my last year of university and I don't have any income atm, and I need some in order to be able to afford rent after university, etc.

Obviously, there are a lot of jobs that I really don't want to do (I'm never going to work in McD's for instance), and while I could if I had to, I don't want to handle meat or promote the meat and dairy industry in any way, so I'm very limited. Then, the other day, a bunch of positions became available at a Safari park, and I'm so poor I'm considering it.

I don't think it's right to use animals for entertainment, obviously but I really need this money and there aren't a lot of jobs around at the minute. I wouldn't be involved with the animals directly, for anyone that's wondering, but I was just looking for advice, as the idea of it sits uneasily with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
A little more information; the place has a conservation program and has bred Camels, Lions, Giraffes, Zebra, Pere David's Deer, Lemurs, Southern white rhinos, Marmosets, Llamas, Lechwe, Chimpanzees, Fallow Deer, Ostriches, with a new rhino being born this month.

However, it also has a performing sea lion show, which I don't like being associated with.
 

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Can you work at a pet shop? Here we have petsmart and petco. Are there places like that around where you live you could try to get a job at?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ah, no I definitely wouldn't work at a pet shop, I've actively tried to stop people going into the pet shop here because it's a horrible place. My gf bought a bird out of it once, and the poor thing is only recovering six months after being taken away from there. I wouldn't want to work at any stores selling animals...
 

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Personally I wouldn't work somewhere that promotes animals for entertainment if I wasn't going to work somewhere like a pet store. (Which like you I also don't. I understand your struggles) I don't know what the job market is like over there but myself and other vegans here have gotten jobs telemarketing or in sales.
 

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I think it's a difficult situation, and only you can decide what to do. But I'll say how I think I'd feel and think in the same situation.

Whilst part of me wouldn't want to work so directly related to using animals, I know in reality most businesses are going to be linked to, owned by, or involved in activities I consider unethical (for animal rights reasons or otherwise). For example, all supermarkets sell lots of unvegan products, but I would still work at one (and shop at one for that matter), but they profit from animal cruelty/use. If I ever wanted to work in the medical industry (as an eingineer, in sales, marketing, research and development, etc), I'd be working for companies that test of animals - even if I wasn't working on a part of that company that did so. Some univertisites have animal testing labs (I don't know if mine does, I know oxford does because there's a lot of hype about it). Etc.

So my point here isn't to put you off millions of jobs! But to demonstrate even though you know you're directly working for a company that uses animals, most jobs in some way support or comission either cruel, unvegan or otherwise unethical acts. I think that's important to remember when you are making up your mind - infact compared to animal testing, selling meat, etc, it's really a lesser evil (ie: they do do consveration work, and presumably treat their animals well).

So I guess for me, I'd think less about the ethics of my employer, and more about if MY job is ethical (in this case, yes), and how I FEEL about it. For example, working at a butchers or working in sainsburys will both involve working for a company that supplies meat, BUT I don't think it would upset me to work in sainsburys, but it would to work in a butchers being surrounded by meat, and it's smell, etc, all day would.

Another worthy point is that a job isn't for life, there's nothing wrong with applying and if you get the job keep hunting for something you might prefer, and if you get it quitting - even if you're only there for a month or so (I'm not sure how glowing your reference would be, but I don't think they can slate you for it since there's nothing wrong with it.).

Anyway, I hope you make the right choice. If it was me, and I needed the money, I think I'd do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I've been looking up the history of the park, and I can't find any records of animal abuse. Closest I could find was in 1972 when some lions were shot after escaping, and those were killed by the police :/

@vegansarawr: I refuse to do telemarketing too, because as my friend's recent experiences showed, it can be evil. He was getting ridden by his boss for not promoting new packages, etc to old women on the phone, when they were telling him about their debt problems. He's like a personal hero after he told his boss to 'go stuff it up his arse' if he thought he was going to ruin anyone's finances for an iPhone contract. Also telesales tend to require suits/smart wear, and I am NOT that sort of person. I know I might seem like a fussy child here, but all I want is to be able to cover rent, food and pay back a little debt, then go to some shows. I don't want full time work if I can help it
 

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I admire Identity thief's approach to this ethical dilemna. Applicable to all sorts of employment and career choices.

Also some telemarketing is decent, like selling newspaper subscriptions for example. But even teleresearch can be sketchy, like "asking" people about their smoking habits, for example, which really just reminds them to reach for a pack of deathsticks.

Confused why you say you only want part time work(?) but if you need ideas for work, also try the library for a book on self employment for students, teens or work from home businesses.
When my son wanted money he shovelled snow or raked leaves and would pull in $200 per weekend charging a small sum for a little raking, a little shovelling and more for more work. Many people don't hire anyone because they will only work for larger sums of money.

There may be jobs you can create if you are interested. Another thing my son did in good weather was "second hand" selling outside, like yardsales, and when he ran out of his own stuff to get rid of, he'd share the profit with others who sold their stuff through him.

Do you drive? Can you "check in" on elderly or help people who have physical disabilities? What's the weather like where you live? What do you like?

All the best in your search and in your applying for the job you mentioned or other ones.
 

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We all need work. If you don't take the position, somebody else will - and if it meant working with the animals first hand, I'd much rather someone with parallel views to my own fill the position, rather than some uncaring prick just looking for a paycheque... I suppose that could go for any job. Vegans/vegetarians will more thoroughly ensure humane practices when dealing with animals, and less waste when dealing with food products.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappa View Post

Well I've been looking up the history of the park, and I can't find any records of animal abuse. Closest I could find was in 1972 when some lions were shot after escaping, and those were killed by the police :/

@vegansarawr: I refuse to do telemarketing too, because as my friend's recent experiences showed, it can be evil. He was getting ridden by his boss for not promoting new packages, etc to old women on the phone, when they were telling him about their debt problems. He's like a personal hero after he told his boss to 'go stuff it up his arse' if he thought he was going to ruin anyone's finances for an iPhone contract. Also telesales tend to require suits/smart wear, and I am NOT that sort of person. I know I might seem like a fussy child here, but all I want is to be able to cover rent, food and pay back a little debt, then go to some shows. I don't want full time work if I can help it
I just quit a job in computer sales, partly because of university work, but in reality they offered to let me drastically reduce my hours which would have been feasible, but I'm still going to quit (just got to work my notice) because I hate being a sales person. It sucks pushing people to buy things they don't need, and it sucks refusing to push them and then getting berated by a manager.

Prior to this I worked in retail, which was so different from sales- I worked at Au Naturale and Woolworths in the homewares department (before they went bust) and although it was not glamorous or fun, and was mostly really boring (stacking shelves/ serving on the till) it was easy and didn't damage my conscience too much. I didn't have to go up to people and try and sell them insurance on their cushions or get them to take out a monthly payment plan on a photo frame. I actually look back on the time at Woolworths quite fondly- on the late shifts the main managers would go home before us and we'd put out stock, and sometimes we jumped around on the bean bags and some people would run around playing tig. Bit immature but then we were mostly 16-21 year olds. I also find arranging stock on a shelf quite therapeutic, and I liked lining things up just right and then I'd get annoyed when customers bought something cause they'd messed up my display
.

As for the ethics, all the shops I've worked at have sold leather products, and Woolworths also sold non-veg*n food, but it never occurred to me to think that it was therefore wrong to work there. If I would shop at a shop, I don't see why working there is any different. I suppose the only issue that came up was at my most recent job we were selling the Kindle and we were meant to try and persuade/ force customers to buy a cover for it and the only cover available was leather. I didn't realise this, so when someone asked me for a kindle I said 'would you like a cover with that' and the guy said 'well what have you got?' I looked and realised there was only a leather one. By that point it was too late, I couldn't exactly say 'oh actually we don't have any' because the guy was standing in front of the display and he saw it too. But if I'd known there was only a leather cover I wouldn't have offered it, even if it goes against my job rules. I guess that's where I'd draw the line.

I personally would say that working at a safari park would not go against my ethics, but I'm sure others would disagree and say it's non vegan. I disagree with the use of animals for entertainment, and I wouldn't say safari parks are exactly ethical, but they're usually better than zoos and much, much better than animal circuses. I too wouldn't work at a pet shop. I guess I just go with my instinct about how far I will go with things. You need a job and if that's all you can get, then all that matters is how you feel about it. If you think it will make you doubt yourself or feel bad about yourself, don't do it. If you think that it will not be an issue for you, do it, and you can look for another job while you do.
 

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I've been thinking about this issue myself lately. I'm actually in the middle of a job hunt right now. I'm an attorney, and one of the jobs I'm interviewing for is an in-house position at a major international fashion/beauty company. As those companies go, this company is more ethical than some (they don't test their beauty products on animals, for example), but they do make leather and wool fashion items, and I'm sure their beauty products probably contain animal ingredients. However, being a lawyer, my job would not involve any actual manufacturing or really even interaction with their actual products.

I think it's up to you to decide how you feel about this. For me, I think I've made peace with the idea that as long as I'm not personally doing anything in my actual job that would cause harm to any animals, me working for a company like that isn't necessarily a bad thing... and I agree with Back Space's point, having you working in this particular job could actually even be a good thing (as opposed to someone who doesn't care about animals.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks everyone for your advice! lucky_charm, I think you and I must have the same personality in some way, because I actually love the idea of being able to just stack shelves without being involved with the customers! In fact, I've been mistaken for an employee in several record stores due to arranging the shelves...
I would happily work in a shop that sold non-veg*n food, just not a restaurant, because I wouldn't want to be preparing it, since I have the bad habit of munching away on the stuff I'm preparing, and it's such second nature I'd end up putting things in my mouth without thinking, or spend the entire time being so tense about it and feeling sick that I'd get fired!

And to explain for Breezydreams and others; I really only want part time work so I can do activist stuff, pursue hobbies and charity work. I only want enough cash to feed and cloth myself, afford maybe the odd luxury, but I don't want particularly to do or own anything extravagent... So long as I have a roof, food and enough cash to be able to buy the odd tshirt, I would be happy. Trying to be as minimalist as I can.
 
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