Jazz asks, "Why is it wrong to eat fish?"
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cos they don't really appreciate being eaten.
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To put it simply, fish are animals just like us. A lot of fish are more intelligent than small mammals, such as mice and hamsters.
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>froggythefrog</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To put it simply, fish are animals just like us. A lot of fish are more intelligent than small mammals, such as mice and hamsters.</div>
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I've known fish that are more intelligent than some people. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="
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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>froggythefrog</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To put it simply, fish are animals just like us. A lot of fish are more intelligent than small mammals, such as mice and hamsters.</div>
</div>
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I've known fish that are more intelligent than some people. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="
">
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Are you sure the people weren't just being coy?
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Fish are sentient.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>froggythefrog</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To put it simply, fish are animals just like us. A lot of fish are more intelligent than small mammals, such as mice and hamsters.</div>
</div>
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Do you have some sources for this?
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>froggythefrog</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
To put it simply, fish are animals just like us. A lot of fish are more intelligent than small mammals, such as mice and hamsters.</div>
</div>
<br>
Do you have some sources for this?
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8,743 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Fish are sentient.<br><br><br><br>
Do you have some sources for this?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/03/nfish03.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/03/ixhome.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...03/ixhome.html</a><br><br><br><br>
"Swimming gormlessly around in their bowls or tanks, fish have long been dismissed as dunces compared with "higher" animals such as rats, cats, dogs and primates. This view is now being challenged by findings that could re-ignite the debate over the cruelty of angling. Tests on fish in aquaria at Oxford University have shown that despite their tiny brains, they possess cognitive abilities outstripping those of some small mammals."
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Fish are sentient.<br><br><br><br>
Do you have some sources for this?</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/03/nfish03.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/03/ixhome.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...03/ixhome.html</a><br><br><br><br>
"Swimming gormlessly around in their bowls or tanks, fish have long been dismissed as dunces compared with "higher" animals such as rats, cats, dogs and primates. This view is now being challenged by findings that could re-ignite the debate over the cruelty of angling. Tests on fish in aquaria at Oxford University have shown that despite their tiny brains, they possess cognitive abilities outstripping those of some small mammals."
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Why don't you stick your head in a pirhana tank and ask =p
I think you need to ask yourself if you feel it is wrong to eat fish then what the word "wrong" means to you.<br><br>
Do be wrong as in socialy unacceptable or does it go against your moral belifes etc.<br><br>
Eating meat any kind or not eating it is a personal choice, asking us why it is wrong will not do you much good if you feel it is perfectly OK.
Do be wrong as in socialy unacceptable or does it go against your moral belifes etc.<br><br>
Eating meat any kind or not eating it is a personal choice, asking us why it is wrong will not do you much good if you feel it is perfectly OK.
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<span style="color:#008000;">Good post, Arylin. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"><br><br><br><br>
Jazz- it all depends on whether you consider yourself a vegetarian or a pescetarian. Vegetarians do not eat animals. Pescetarians eat fish.</span>
Jazz- it all depends on whether you consider yourself a vegetarian or a pescetarian. Vegetarians do not eat animals. Pescetarians eat fish.</span>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">There is debate as to whether or not fish feel pain. I don't really think it matters. Why kill something just because you can, especially when you don't have to?</div>
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It matters to me. But so far all debates seems to suggest fish do feel pain and are sentient beings.
<div class="quote-block">There is debate as to whether or not fish feel pain. I don't really think it matters. Why kill something just because you can, especially when you don't have to?</div>
</div>
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It matters to me. But so far all debates seems to suggest fish do feel pain and are sentient beings.
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Have you ever seen a fish caught? The struggle? The desperate attempt to live? To breathe?<br><br><br><br>
Or, if that is too heavy, have you seen The Little Mermaid? Sebastian running from the chef makes a very compelling argument.
Or, if that is too heavy, have you seen The Little Mermaid? Sebastian running from the chef makes a very compelling argument.
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from Dawnwatch:<br><br><br><br>
The Sunday, October 8, Los Angeles Times includes an op-ed headed,<br><br>
"Hooked on a Myth" with the subheading, "Do fish feel pain? A biologist<br><br>
says we shouldn't be so quick to believe they don't." (pg M5)<br><br><br><br>
The piece is by Victoria Braithwaite, a behavioral biologist at<br><br>
Edinburgh University.<br><br><br><br>
It opens:<br><br>
"Every year sportsmen around the world drag millions of fish to shore<br><br>
on barbed hooks. It's something people have always done, and with little<br><br>
enough conscience. Fish are well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp<br><br>
when you accidentally step on their feet. Fish don't cry out or look sad<br><br>
or respond in a particularly recognizable way. So we feel free to treat<br><br>
them in a way that we would not treat mammals or even birds.<br><br><br><br>
"But is there really any biological justification for exempting fish<br><br>
from the standards nowadays accorded to so-called higher animals? Do we<br><br>
really know whether fish feel pain or whether they suffer or whether,<br><br>
in fact, our gut sense that they are dumb, unfeeling animals is<br><br>
accurate?"<br><br><br><br>
She describes an experiment in which she and colleagues injected bee<br><br>
venom under the skin of trout. The animals acted as if in pain -- they<br><br>
lost interest in food, their gills beat faster, and they rubbed the<br><br>
affected areas against the wall of their tank. When the fish were given<br><br>
painkillers (which would not remove the irritating substance but would only<br><br>
impact the experience of pain) the fish acted normally.<br><br><br><br>
Braithwaite writes, however, "To determine what fish go through<br><br>
mentally when they experience painful stimuli, we also need to determine<br><br>
whether they have a capacity to feel emotion and to suffer.<br><br><br><br>
"This is a much harder problem. It goes to the very heart of one of the<br><br>
biggest unresolved issues in biology: Do nonhuman animals have emotions<br><br>
and feelings? Are nonhuman animals conscious?"<br><br><br><br>
(Millions of people who have seen their dogs go bounding around the<br><br>
house at the site of a leash in their human's hand should be laughing at<br><br>
the idea that the scientists are still trying to figure out whether or<br><br>
not nonhuman animals have emotions.)<br><br><br><br>
She writes:<br><br>
"It turns out that the stereotype of fish as slow, dim-witted creatures<br><br>
is wrong; many fish are remarkably clever. For example, they can learn<br><br>
geometrical relationships and landmarks and then use these to<br><br>
generate a mental map to plan escape routes if a predator shows up.<br><br><br><br>
"And their brains are not as different from ours as we once thought."<br><br><br><br>
Braithwaite explains that their forebrain areas are similar to ours,<br><br>
that "If these regions are damaged in fish, their learning and emotional<br><br>
capacities are impaired; they can no longer find their way through<br><br>
mazes, and they lose their sense of fear" so they are obviously "more than<br><br>
simple automata."<br><br><br><br>
She asks whether that knowledge should change the way we treat fish.<br><br>
You'll find the full piece on line at:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail" target="_blank">http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...nion-rightrail</a><br><br>
OR<br><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/rnya2" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/rnya2</a><br><br><br><br>
It presents a great opportunity for appreciative pro-veggie letters to<br><br>
the editor.
The Sunday, October 8, Los Angeles Times includes an op-ed headed,<br><br>
"Hooked on a Myth" with the subheading, "Do fish feel pain? A biologist<br><br>
says we shouldn't be so quick to believe they don't." (pg M5)<br><br><br><br>
The piece is by Victoria Braithwaite, a behavioral biologist at<br><br>
Edinburgh University.<br><br><br><br>
It opens:<br><br>
"Every year sportsmen around the world drag millions of fish to shore<br><br>
on barbed hooks. It's something people have always done, and with little<br><br>
enough conscience. Fish are well, fish. They're not dogs, who yelp<br><br>
when you accidentally step on their feet. Fish don't cry out or look sad<br><br>
or respond in a particularly recognizable way. So we feel free to treat<br><br>
them in a way that we would not treat mammals or even birds.<br><br><br><br>
"But is there really any biological justification for exempting fish<br><br>
from the standards nowadays accorded to so-called higher animals? Do we<br><br>
really know whether fish feel pain or whether they suffer or whether,<br><br>
in fact, our gut sense that they are dumb, unfeeling animals is<br><br>
accurate?"<br><br><br><br>
She describes an experiment in which she and colleagues injected bee<br><br>
venom under the skin of trout. The animals acted as if in pain -- they<br><br>
lost interest in food, their gills beat faster, and they rubbed the<br><br>
affected areas against the wall of their tank. When the fish were given<br><br>
painkillers (which would not remove the irritating substance but would only<br><br>
impact the experience of pain) the fish acted normally.<br><br><br><br>
Braithwaite writes, however, "To determine what fish go through<br><br>
mentally when they experience painful stimuli, we also need to determine<br><br>
whether they have a capacity to feel emotion and to suffer.<br><br><br><br>
"This is a much harder problem. It goes to the very heart of one of the<br><br>
biggest unresolved issues in biology: Do nonhuman animals have emotions<br><br>
and feelings? Are nonhuman animals conscious?"<br><br><br><br>
(Millions of people who have seen their dogs go bounding around the<br><br>
house at the site of a leash in their human's hand should be laughing at<br><br>
the idea that the scientists are still trying to figure out whether or<br><br>
not nonhuman animals have emotions.)<br><br><br><br>
She writes:<br><br>
"It turns out that the stereotype of fish as slow, dim-witted creatures<br><br>
is wrong; many fish are remarkably clever. For example, they can learn<br><br>
geometrical relationships and landmarks and then use these to<br><br>
generate a mental map to plan escape routes if a predator shows up.<br><br><br><br>
"And their brains are not as different from ours as we once thought."<br><br><br><br>
Braithwaite explains that their forebrain areas are similar to ours,<br><br>
that "If these regions are damaged in fish, their learning and emotional<br><br>
capacities are impaired; they can no longer find their way through<br><br>
mazes, and they lose their sense of fear" so they are obviously "more than<br><br>
simple automata."<br><br><br><br>
She asks whether that knowledge should change the way we treat fish.<br><br>
You'll find the full piece on line at:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-braithwaite8oct08,0,7423086.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail" target="_blank">http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...nion-rightrail</a><br><br>
OR<br><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/rnya2" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/rnya2</a><br><br><br><br>
It presents a great opportunity for appreciative pro-veggie letters to<br><br>
the editor.
Joined
·
18,833 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kpickell</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It matters to me. But so far all debates seems to suggest fish do feel pain and are sentient beings.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><span style="color:#008000;">It matters to me, too. I keep and care for 6 fish on a daily basis. They matter. They aren't stupid and recognize me each and every time I approach their tanks. When I clean their tanks they permit me to pet them and touch them with my hand. When I feed them, they swim up, look at me and eat. They will eat from my fingertips if I hold the food in the water.<br><br>
The whole "goldfish memory" thing is a myth. It was disproved on "Mythbusters" as well.</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kpickell</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It matters to me. But so far all debates seems to suggest fish do feel pain and are sentient beings.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><span style="color:#008000;">It matters to me, too. I keep and care for 6 fish on a daily basis. They matter. They aren't stupid and recognize me each and every time I approach their tanks. When I clean their tanks they permit me to pet them and touch them with my hand. When I feed them, they swim up, look at me and eat. They will eat from my fingertips if I hold the food in the water.<br><br>
The whole "goldfish memory" thing is a myth. It was disproved on "Mythbusters" as well.</span>
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3,984 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hoodedclawjen</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
cos they don't really appreciate being eaten.</div>
</div>
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best answer. thread over.
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>hoodedclawjen</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
cos they don't really appreciate being eaten.</div>
</div>
<br>
best answer. thread over.
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2,348 Posts
jeezycreezy asks "Why did you ask this question in the third person?"<br><br><br><br>
The only thing I would like to add is that "overfishing is a threat to biodiversity", "angling is bloodsport", and "ghoti".
The only thing I would like to add is that "overfishing is a threat to biodiversity", "angling is bloodsport", and "ghoti".
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