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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I've been vegetarian for about 8 years. I've never faltered or even been tempted to go back to eating meat. My motive for being vegetarian always was, and still is ethical reasons.

However, through my work as a vegetarian food blogger, I see a lot of comments (some quite nasty) from vegans, saying there's no point being vegetarian, because it still supports the dairy industry.

I can't be vegan for reasons that I won't go into here, so my dilemma is this:
Am I actually helping animals and/or the environment at all by being vegetarian, or am I just kidding myself that I'm doing a good thing and might as well return to an omnivorous way of life?

I would appreciate your views on this, but please bear in mind what I said above. Veganism isn't an option.

TIA.
 

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I'm not vegan. I'm not even vegetarian. However I have went years as a raw vegan in the past and it is a lot more feasible than most of the expert nutritionists believe. I am about 99% vegetarian in my daily life over the last several decades. My main reason for not staying vegan is cultural. I do believe there are things from the animal kingdom that can serve one nutritionally, mostly bee products and to a lesser extent eggs, but animal products are mostly unnecessary. Most people would benefit from a long period of veganism or even fasting. Only strict long term fanatical vegans who are not being honest with themselves about their health are at risk of malnutrition, and even in those cases it is caused by major imbalances rather than exclusion of animal products.
 

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You're sort of saying you're thinking of going back to eating meat out of spite against vegans in the internet, which is pretty effed up.

It's entirely true that there is one "food animal exploitation industry." Those who eat dairy, eggs, honey, gelatin, wear leather, use bone meal or fish emulsion in their gardens, etc., are fueling this food animal exploitation industry. Frankly that's true of those who feed their companion animals meat too, though there's a case to be made that it's unavoidable or at least impractical to avoid that. But if the question is "is all that true about egg/dairy?" The answer is yes.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with kidding ourselves. It's not merely about making a difference through our personal actions. We all know realistically we need thousands and millions of people making millions and billions of choices to have an impact. Most of us are kidding ourselves if we think we're individually doing something. (This is completely a human ego problem, not yours particularly.)

The real reason we do what we do is because we're trying to be good people. Or at least we're trying not to be a$$h0les. It's not important that we maintain a delusion that recycling one bottle or eating one veggie burger is somehow helping. What's important is we're able to look at ourselves in the mirror without retching.

However, if you're looking for vegans who will soothe your feelings, I'm not one of them. Unless you've worked with a qualified vegan RD who told you that a vegan diet is absolutely going to harm you, I don't accept that you simply "can't." Most ethical vegans know better, and they won't accept it either. If you're not willing to say what's stopping you, then there's no reason to accept your statement as fact. And you're going to get pushback.

Perhaps identifying yourself as an "ethical vegetarian" is part of the problem. That immediately marks you as someone who at best doesn't know better, or at worst is a b-llsh!tter. So again, it's no wonder people want to challenge that. Ultimately, the ethical choice is always going to be vegan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@Evolotus Wow! What a nasty, hostile and foul mouthed response! I never suggested going back to eating meat to spite anyone. My concerns is that if I'm consuming milk and eggs, am I actually doing any good by cutting out meat?

Identifying as an ethical vegetarian is not a problem and is 100% accurate. I love the taste of meat and the meals that can make with it, and in moderation it's not unhealthy. My reasons for abstaining from meat consumption are completely to do with animal welfare.

I am not looking for vegans to soothe my feelings. I'm not actually looking for the views of vegans at all - hence posting in the vegetarian section of this forum. As I stated initially. I cannot be vegan. That is a fact, so elaborating on that isn't relevant or appropriate here.

My query is simply, are there any benefits from being vegetarian from an ethical/animal welfare point of view, or am I doing something pointlessly. If you wish to just be nasty towards vegetarians then I suggest you abstain from responding to posts made in the vegetarian support forum.
 

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This issue controls more things than people realize. It is perfectly possible, and actually healthy to eat a raw vegan diet for years at a time. Not many have tried to, so it is important for us who have to share our details for our collective understanding so that all of us can make better choices. It's not necessary to get too emotional about it since it is already arousing strong emotions just thinking about these things so we probably should try to be more kind to each other.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It's not necessary to get too emotional about it since it is already arousing strong emotions just thinking about these things so we probably should try to be more kind to each other.
Quite right - thank you! So in your opinion, are there any benefits of someone being vegetarian if they're not able to go the extra step to becoming vegan? My view has always been this: telling someone there's no point being vegetarian if you're still consuming eggs and milk is like saying it's pointless turning a light off when you're not in the room because the fridge is still using electricity. INnother words, it's better to do something than nothing! Having said that, I still receive a lot of abuse from some vegans, who strangely don't seem to direct the same comments towards meat eaters who are doing nothing to reduce animal cruelty!
 

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It seems like it would be better to not need to rigidly classify yourself as vegan vegetarian, carnivore, breatharian, etc... Getting into these ideologies distracts us from the reality that we are living a real life in real time right now and that our bodies are giving us feedback from the food choices we have made. Consciously giving in to temptation might get you to suddenly realize what feels healthy for you personally. We are individuals. We have biochemical individuality. The sensation signals/feelings from your physical body will guide you toward the appropriate food choices. In other words you have to be constantly vigilant. I personally believe that the more we learn, then the more we will realize that we get better nourishment when we don't kill moving organisms to eat them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm not sure anyone's really understanding my question here, so I'll rephrase it really clearly:

From an ethical and animal welfare point of view, is there any benefit of being vegetarian?

I understand that veganism is ideal, but I'm asking about vegetarianism vs. meat-eating.
 

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You're sort of saying you're thinking of going back to eating meat out of spite against vegans in the internet, which is pretty effed up.
The original post said NOTHING about going back to eating meat. Get your facts straight before hopping up on a soap box. Not doing so will only make you look ridiculous (like you just did to yourself - way to go, by the way!)

It's entirely true that there is one "food animal exploitation industry." Those who eat dairy, eggs, honey, gelatin, wear leather, use bone meal or fish emulsion in their gardens, etc., are fueling this food animal exploitation industry. Frankly that's true of those who feed their companion animals meat too, though there's a case to be made that it's unavoidable or at least impractical to avoid that. But if the question is "is all that true about egg/dairy?" The answer is yes.
Agreed that there is terrible exploitation in the dairy industry, but a person being vegetarian is, at least to my mind, pointed in a better direction than someone who doesn't care about any of it and says things like "bacon is delicious" in defense of their position. Basically... on a sliding scale of "doing maximum harm" to "doing minimum harm", someone who is vegetarian is at least further from the "doing maximum harm" side than quite a lot of people.

The real reason we do what we do is because we're trying to be good people. Or at least we're trying not to be a$$h0les. It's not important that we maintain a delusion that recycling one bottle or eating one veggie burger is somehow helping. What's important is we're able to look at ourselves in the mirror without retching.
And here, insinuating that the original poster should be retching when looking into the mirror. They don't have to... and especially not because you might were you in their shoes. No one needs to care about your opinion.

However, if you're looking for vegans who will soothe your feelings, I'm not one of them. Unless you've worked with a qualified vegan RD who told you that a vegan diet is absolutely going to harm you, I don't accept that you simply "can't." Most ethical vegans know better, and they won't accept it either. If you're not willing to say what's stopping you, then there's no reason to accept your statement as fact. And you're going to get pushback.
Good for you, I suppose. The reality is that "eating meat" as a standalone proposition is completely a gray area, ethically. It simply has to be - there is no way around it. Sure, in this day an age, we humans could likely all be vegan with zero effects to our well-being... but that is absolutely because we have entire industries devoted to the procurement of human edibles and nutrition. We have the benefit of science cluing us in on what it is our bodies need, and what we absolutely can't do without, and what we can. If all that goes away (which, let's face it, is a very simplistic possibility) then a human being is faced with actual survival choices. Foraging for enough vegetation, that contains the variety of nutrients you're going to need sooner or later, without a supermarket to go to, or a nutritionist telling you what to eat and what not to is a gargantuan task. Plenty of our ancestors died just to inform us of what not to do. Faced with survival versus not, would I turn to eating an animal in order to get what I need? Of course. Anyone who wouldn't should probably stop eating plants as well... because the only argument you can make to deter someone from survival would be that you must prize the other life more than your own... and if that is the case, then a person with that view point should also stop taking the lives of plants for the same reasons. The reality is that any species out there prizes their own lives, and we don't fault the wolf for the necessities of action he faces. Basically what I am getting at is that the only reason you have the luxury to shame people about animal consumption in the here and now is because it is relatively easy for us to get our hands on the nutrition we need, and therefore that fact in the mix makes it more about choice when someone selects meat over vegetation. But that ethical luxury goes away the moment there is actual survival on the line. Which means that whether or not you have an ethical leg to stand on in saying no one should ever eat meat in the first place is entirely questionable - let alone partaking in dairy product, etc.

Perhaps identifying yourself as an "ethical vegetarian" is part of the problem. That immediately marks you as someone who at best doesn't know better, or at worst is a b-llsh!tter. So again, it's no wonder people want to challenge that. Ultimately, the ethical choice is always going to be vegan.
It is only our current, modern circumstances that push it into the "ethical choice" category. So no... I cannot agree that the "ethical choice is always going to be vegan" - not always. And because it is not always, there is gray area introduced. Again - we do not fault any other omnivore on the planet for making the choices it makes out of need or even convenience. It makes no sense to do so. And we, ourselves, are animals, first and foremost. Abstract thinkers secondly - allowing us things like the contemplation of ethics. The main point being - you can't abstract think your way out of starvation. What can get you out of that, however, is eating another life... like billions upon billions of other creatures do every day. To believe we are far enough removed from "the animals" to be "above it all" is another trick of the ego.
 

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It looks like the threads got garbled together somehow so I will give two comments here:

meatless_meerkat: Yes, there is benefit to being vegetarian even if you don't decide to go vegan. Have an open mind because our results are not usually what we expect them to be.

jenny01040: If your teeth are troubling you the most important immediate thing to do is rinse after eating with the best quality water you can to keep your mouth clear of acidity. You need to eat more food high in minerals like magnesium & silica and eat less sweet food.
 

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.....because the only argument you can make to deter someone from survival would be that you must prize the other life more than your own... and if that is the case, then a person with that view point should also stop taking the lives of plants for the same reasons....
(bold emphasis mine) As soon as I got to this part, I stopped reading. There was no point.
 

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I'm not sure anyone's really understanding my question here, so I'll rephrase it really clearly:

From an ethical and animal welfare point of view, is there any benefit of being vegetarian?

I understand that veganism is ideal, but I'm asking about vegetarianism vs. meat-eating.

Well, Mahatma Gandhi felt so.

He wrote a book, "The Moral Basis of Vegetarianism"


Our minds seem endlessly attracted to negativity and to ideas of hopelessness. I would really work hard at ignoring them. I mean, generally. Sometimes they have merit. But more often than not, those thoughts are just like your 5 year old nephew throwing spitballs at you to annoy you. In and of themselves, they have no substance.

Does doing a good act help? Always. It might not change the entirety of the world, but it will always do some good. On the contrary, giving up on ideals often leads us down a dark road of negativity that can really poison our lives.
 

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Hi all,

I've been vegetarian for about 8 years. I've never faltered or even been tempted to go back to eating meat. My motive for being vegetarian always was, and still is ethical reasons.

However, through my work as a vegetarian food blogger, I see a lot of comments (some quite nasty) from vegans, saying there's no point being vegetarian, because it still supports the dairy industry.

I can't be vegan for reasons that I won't go into here, so my dilemma is this:
Am I actually helping animals and/or the environment at all by being vegetarian, or am I just kidding myself that I'm doing a good thing and might as well return to an omnivorous way of life?

I would appreciate your views on this, but please bear in mind what I said above. Veganism isn't an option.

TIA.
Hello meatless meerkat! Full disclosure. I am vegan. Next, you are absolutely 100% helping through vegetarianism. Extremism and zealotry of vegan castigation you're encountering are marks of adolescent thought. On the topic of vegetarianism as compassionate living, let us think about what we consume on a spectrum of harmfulness and face the fact that modern living is inherently harmful. We harm other life on the planet just by existing within industrial / post-industrial population-explosive society and are in the middle of what scientists are calling the 6th great extinction.

That out of the way, let's think about this topic from the perspective of harm reduction. We are in the business of mitigating the damage we cause by living. To the extent that we are able to do that and when we look back at the end of our lives and our ramble over the planet we can tell ourselves we worked to mitigate the damage we caused and the negative painful legacy we left behind for future generations, we will be comforted.

As a vegetarian, you can continue to improve your efforts in this way. You can raise your own animals and treat them with compassion. Or short of that, you can develop direct relationships with the producers of what you consume. Short of that, you can develop your awareness of the foods you take in and choose responsibly to only consume from sources you truly know and trust that they produce in a compassionate and responsible way. There are many many paths forward for you in your journey. There is no path backward. You cannot as they say have the mighty oak and wish for the acorn any more than you can give up your compassionate choices and feel consciously whole about that decision.
 

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I need your suggestion
I have cavities and sometimes i feel tooth pain
Someone suggest me
Steel Bite Pro
She said it's best product for stopping tooth decay , cavities and other serious oral health issues( tooth whitening etc)
Should I use this product?

Or if you know any other better product or solution

Kindly guide me



Sent from my TECNO KC2 using Tapatalk
If you want to look into dentists who utilize more natural treatments, you can often find them listed as "Biological Dentists."

I don't know why they use that term, but they often do. I would guess you might also find them listed under "Holistic Dentistry" or "Natural Dentistry."

Here's an article from Integrative Medicine MD, Dr. Andrew Weil:

Holistic & Biological Dentistry

 

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Hi all,

I've been vegetarian for about 8 years. I've never faltered or even been tempted to go back to eating meat. My motive for being vegetarian always was, and still is ethical reasons.

However, through my work as a vegetarian food blogger, I see a lot of comments (some quite nasty) from vegans, saying there's no point being vegetarian, because it still supports the dairy industry.

I can't be vegan for reasons that I won't go into here, so my dilemma is this:
Am I actually helping animals and/or the environment at all by being vegetarian, or am I just kidding myself that I'm doing a good thing and might as well return to an omnivorous way of life?

I would appreciate your views on this, but please bear in mind what I said above. Veganism isn't an option.

TIA.
Hey Dear,

I think you should not think about things in negative ways, it's okay and in my perspective, it is good that you are a vegetarian rather than being a non-vegetarian, I'm a vegan since birth, and If being vegan is not an option for you then it's not something bad or you're not fooling yourself either, you definitely contributing to protecting nature and animals. Not being vegan doesn't mean you do not contribute to saving nature and animal kind. Do not take some nasty comments seriously and stop doing something which aspires the world to become a better place.
 

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Lately I've really been considering going vegetarian. I suppose a lot of it has to do with me just feeling as though the food industry is filled with too much crap. That is not to say its all crap or even that all vegetarian options are good.
 

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Lately I've really been considering going vegetarian. I suppose a lot of it has to do with me just feeling as though the food industry is filled with too much crap. That is not to say its all crap or even that all vegetarian options are good.
Ethical considerations aside, eating meat is actually far more dangerous to your health than almost anyone realizes.
 
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