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This probably does not apply to people living in the country or suburbs.

This is a question for those of us who live in urban environment.

Don't you think owning a cat or a dog or any other pet while living a city appartment is a form of animal cruelity?

Think about it. Domestic cats and dogs are being kept in small urban apartments for whole thier lives. Many never go outdoors.

I believe animals are intented to be country dwellers. Unless you are living in the country, keeping a pet is not ethical. What is your opinion?
 

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Impeach the gangster
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I don't think quality of life necessarily depends on the parameters you've adopted. But at the same time, I think people who live in big cities are morons. Is it okay to expand the conversation to include people? In my opinion, city life is cruel for everybody.
 
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if the animals weren't domesticated and would have a natrural environment out there where they could hunt and live natural life instead of being surrounded by tons of concrete i would say keeping them would be cruel. considering that it isn't the case keeping them is the better option for them
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post

I don't think quality of life necessarily depends on the parameters you've adopted. But at the same time, I think people who live in big cities are morons. Is it okay to expand the conversation to include people? In my opinion, city life is cruel for everybody.
It depends on what you want from life. I love living in the city, it's a very vibrant way of life. Some cats and dogs who live in the city are probably spoiled rotten compared to the those living in the burbs, and visa versa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post

But at the same time, I think people who live in big cities are morons. Is it okay to expand the conversation to include people? In my opinion, city life is cruel for everybody.
I would be happy to swap my city live to a seaside place.

Currently I cannot afford moving somewhere else. In fact, I don't own any property to begin with.

I hope I'll be able to do so one day.
 

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If I hadn't adopted my rabbit, and forced him to spend his entire life inside my little one bedroom apartment, he'd have been dead within a day or two. My apartment isn't the ideal environment for him, but I give him good food, treats, toys to play with, cuddles, and enough space to run laps around the living room for exercise. He seems content, and it's better than the alternative.

In a perfect world, he wouldn't have been bred in the first place, but this is the best realistic outcome for him, since we don't live in a perfect world.

--Fromper
 

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It depends on the animal really - their personality etc. I don't live in a city and am fortunate enough to have a house and a good sized garden; however my dog doesn't really go in the garden she just likes being taken out on walks. She's a young dog but is very calm and sleeps a lot in the day. She would be well suited to apartment life if it came to it.

A cat is a bit different but my mother's cat almost never goes outside as he much prefers indoor life. This isn't due to not having a garden as he used to live with me and both myself and my mum have gardens. Again, he would adapt very well to city life. He is a family cat.

In my opinion (and that's all it is) an animal needs love most of all. Obviously a dog or cat can't be shut in a small room all day but some dogs and cats might cope very well living in an apartment as long as they are happy. That can't be considered cruel.
 

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City and country life both have their benefits. I don't own a car, so I like having public transportation, but the country is fine too.

As for animal companions living indoors or outdoors: being outdoors can be dangerous, both for them and (in the case of dogs or cats) for the wild animals they might hunt. I've had some cats and rabbits whom I brought outside, and I stayed out there with them, but the indoors-only ones seemed to be just as happy. They just need to be given some sort of environmental enrichment, and things to do.

The cats I brought outside weren't so interested in hunting, so no bad things happened on that count- but one of my rabbits was attacked by these cuterebra fly grubs that make a sort of big boil under a rabbit's skin. I had to take her to the vet to have those things extracted. And once, a skunk wandered into my yard when my rabbit and I were out- I didn't get sprayed; they turned around and walked out of the yard- but I had to get within weapons range to pick my rabbit up- she was kind of fearless and might have gone over to the skunk.
 

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V for Vegan
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A lot of dogs in the country have pretty crappy lives too. Many are left in small pens outside or worse, chained. They get no attention from the idiots who "own" them and they spend their lives wasting away physically and mentally. Some of them are lucky if they even get food and water on a regular basis. Compared to that a lot of city pets probably have it made. That said, a well cared for country dog is probably a little happier than a well cared for city dog, but a neglected country dog would be better off in the city with someone who took good care of it.
 

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A lot of dogs in the country have pretty crappy lives too. Many are left in small pens outside or worse, chained. They get no attention from the idiots who "own" them and they spend their lives wasting away physically and mentally. Some of them are lucky if they even get food and water on a regular basis. Compared to that a lot of city pets probably have it made. That said, a well cared for country dog is probably a little happier than a well cared for city dog, but a neglected country dog would be better off in the city with someone who took good care of it.
I agree with this. A lot of people in the country or the suburbs tie their dogs outside and think that constitutes sufficient exercise and stimulation for them. When I lived in New York, I had a huge German Shepherd mix who got long walks three times a day. Once before I left for work, once when I came home and, again, before bed time. The larger breeds from my experience tend to be more sedentary than smaller dogs so my dog was pretty much passed out for the entire day. I doubt he felt closed in or neglected. He also had a ton of toys and some cats to hang with so he was never entirely alone. He lived to a good age and seemed like a happy animal right up to the end.
 

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Cats should be allowed to roam free most of the time, unless theres a good reason, they tend to be quite independant. Dogs however rely on humans much more so its important that they get more excersize and attention.
If someone had a dog who lived in a big city, as long as they took him outside often and played with him loads the dog would behappy. Its just easier to care for a dog in the country.
So it entirely depends on the human and the animals situation as to wether its ethical or not, and dont get a dog or cat or any other animal to live with you if you cant take proper care of them.
 

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A lot of dogs in the country have pretty crappy lives too. Many are left in small pens outside or worse, chained. They get no attention from the idiots who "own" them and they spend their lives wasting away physically and mentally. Some of them are lucky if they even get food and water on a regular basis. Compared to that a lot of city pets probably have it made. That said, a well cared for country dog is probably a little happier than a well cared for city dog, but a neglected country dog would be better off in the city with someone who took good care of it.
Different dogs have different needs. My dog has been a city dog his entire life, he's 11.5 years old now. Country living would greatly upset him. He does not sit in dirt, let alone lay in it, he will not pay outside - only inside, and does not like rain, wind, or snow. I take him with me to work, and he spends most of his life going on walks and laying about. Dogs are hugely like people, we all have our own personalities and needs.
 
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Cats should be allowed to roam free most of the time, unless theres a good reason, they tend to be quite independant.
I think it can be a real problem to allow domesticated cats to roam free, whether it is in the city or country. for example, I have two neighbors that let their cats roam free, and they have killed and injured/harassed countless songbirds in my yard and unlike wild predators they do not eat those birds but leave them to suffer because they don't know better. A few weeks ago I saw a dead cat a few streets down that had been hit by a car. Most cats and dogs do not understand traffic and most humans are in too much of a **&^&** hurry to slow down and avoid hitting them (or it may be a very unfortunate accident). They also can not fend for themselves in the wild unless they are ferrel. In the past I have also witnessed a cat being chased by a raccoon and at that time I was able to intervene on the cat's behalf and scare off the raccoon. That cat would not have stood a chance. I think that people need to take more responsibility in caring for their cat and dog and other "pet" companions and not just let them roam anywhere they want. Another problem is that domesticated cats and dogs that roam free often are not spayed/neutered and they end up having more litters of cats and dogs and it becomes a real problem with an overpopulation of domesticated animals no one wants to care for. Too many domesticated animals are being put down and killed or are starving.

In an ideal world it would be nice to allow these animals to have more freedom to come and go. But the fact is that they are domesticated animals bred for thousands of years by humans and are incapable of surviving on their own for the most part. And we as a society are not prepared to share our towns and cities with them. In some societies cats are more accepted and allowed to roam around and they are cared for on the streets and so on, but I don't know much about those cultures and if there are problems with this there.

I know a lot of country people (not vegans) who put their dogs to work all day and these animals are not viewed as companions. Others will not allow their dogs in the house no matter how harsh the weather, though they might provide dog houses with bedding. My inlaws give us a hard time when we bring our dog there to visit. They do not believe animals should be allowed in the house and that they are only good for work. They put our dog down and call her names like stupid and lazy and it really gets to me and I have asked them to stop, but at least they allow her in the house because she is not used to spending 24/7 outdoors, especially in sub zero temps which happen for months up here. Thankfully we only visit there twice a year. We do walk our dog every day and she has been on many a canoe camping trip, hiking trips etc. We bring her almost everywhere. But she likes to sleep in the house at night and is definitely not a country outdoor dog. Lots of things scare her...bears (had two encounters with them), thunder, wind, lightning...We have a house and yard but even so she is never allowed in the yard without our constant supervision because there have been kidnappings of dogs in our area and people also like to give dogs poisoned snacks.

If I lived alone I would not have another "pet" companion unless I rescued an animal from a bad situation and there was nowhere else safe for it to go. I love animals and the companionship and love they give and how humble and kind they make me, but I sometimes wonder if I am exploiting them in this way because they will never know the freedoms I take for granted, and they are entirely dependent on me for everything. there is also the issue of what to feed them. If it were up to me I would have tried our dog on a vegan diet but my husband will not allow it and she has a VERY sensitive stomach and can only tolerate very specific food. On the same token my husband buys that food for her because she is really his dog. But it supports the suffering of yet another animal.

I guess as long as there is a need to house and care for domesticated animals it is ok to keep them in an apartment given the alternatives for the animals that already exist, but I am all for spaying/neuturing and stopping the breeding of pets of any kind (fish, birds, cats, dogs, rabbits etc). I am glad to see fewer and fewer pet stores in the city where I live and more people choosing to care for animals from shelters and rescue organizations instead.
 

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Cats should be allowed to roam free most of the time, unless theres a good reason, they tend to be quite independant.
Where I live, a cat that roams outside is lucky to live even a few months. I've lived in this city for 14 years and I think I can count on one hand the number of stray cats I've seen - they do not last. My cat never goes outside for that reason. It is simply too dangerous here.
 

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Hello, I had the same thoughts for some time... And I have five cats (living in the city).


Well, all of them were found on the street in really poor conditions, some were almost dying, so since everybody here at home really likes cat we decided to rescue them.

We play with them, take them to the vet etc, but I agree that this is not the same as nature and for sure this is not freedom. But where exactly it is? The way things are right now, we are taking the space of these poor animals, cities are growing and growing and in the case of cats and dogs, most of them live on the street starving, sometimes they lose a leg, an eye etc.

I agree that it can be somehow considered cruelty, but since on a such "unwelcoming" place for animals as a city is... It is probably less worse for them to have at least protection, love etc.

Here it's really commom for people to kill cats violently, or even poison other people's cat.

On my university there's lots of cats and dogs, there is a group who works taking them to the vet, buying food and make sure that they are not going to breed, which in the case of the city, can be probably the best choice ):
 

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There is still a lot of free cats in my city that roams the backstreets even with the all the fix and release done by animal organisations. I've seen sick kitties that lost eyes due to infections, I saw dead cats in the winter (am in Canada), I saw abandoned litters of kittens and poor females always pregnant. The city cats are not wild cats, even though many won't let a human approach them. Their concrete environment is ill suited to have them survive and thrive and shelter and food is a huge issue, so is diseases.

What I want to say is that taking in a cat from a shelter is for me an act of kindness. I had three cats, because of allergies I had to find good families for two, the last one is still with us and my son's allergies are gone (she's a short hair maybe that is why, dunno). And yes I made extra sure that the families that took the two others are awesome ones, I get frequent pictures and all assuring me they are comfy and happy and loved.

So is it ethical? As long as the cat is well fed and loved yes! All cats are different. My youngest rescued wanted to be outside all the time and got in trouble with other outside cats getting chased and all, the two others were balcony types. I just go along with what the cat want. The one I have left, my oldest, she hates the outdoors and only go out at night when everything is quiet on the balcony. I took her to the yard on grass and each time she ran back panicked in the house. She feels safe on the balcony and inside I guess.

I feel a bit sad for the cats that live in apartment towers and would love to roam but at the same time, the city is so dangerous, many cats get killed, last summer my neighbour's cat was hit by a car and died, that makes me happy my little Midnight doesn't wanna roam.
I'm also jealous of people living in the country that can raise their animals a bit more free.

Lets also remember that cats are evolving, there is a video made in the UK about that. They are adopting attitudes etc to be more synergized with the house and us hence why we see more cats not interested in roaming nowadays and acting more like kittens.
 

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My hostage--er, cat, is perfectly happy indoors. I take her outside once a day and let her roam our fenced backyard. If you let your cats roam, don't expect them to come home; outdoor cats live short lives, and are apt to get hit by a car, eaten by coyotes, or even get feline hiv. Animal hoarders can kill you cat, so can sick people who kill them for kicks; I knew a guy in HS who recorded mowing over a kitten. I feel that, getting a cat and keeping it indoors is the kindest thing you can do; even though cats cannot eat vegetarian, you are sparing hundreds of small lives by bringing the cat indoors; a bag of cat food probably contains less than half of a chicken, it's mostly all grain. If you still don't feel it's ethical, then don't get one. What does my opinion matter? But I think the same could be said of having children, is it ethical because you keep them mostly indoors? Or because you make decisions for them? I think allowing your children to become obese is cruelty.
In the case of dogs, I think all dogs should be taken on walks daily, and it is cruel to deprive them of an active life which would keep them healthy. Chihuahuas might not count as much, they are so small they probably get a ton of exercise barking at things all day in their home.
And as for hamsters, mice, rabbits, ect., they never need go outside, unless it's to get some fresh air and munch on greens!
 

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I think pets are better off indoors. It's safer for them that way and also, some prefer being indoors. I've had two cats that hate outdoors and only one cat that really loved it. I have two indoor cats and lucky for them I have a large house with plenty for them to play with. The two cats that hated being outdoors were originally outdoor cats and they didn't miss it!
 

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Cats, for safety reasons, really shouldn't go out-of-doors. Ideally, they would be in a big house, but that's not always possible.

Dogs should never live outside, though of course they need to be taken on walks (hopefully, long ones).

I think as long as the animal guardian is making sure the animal is stimulated (playing with them, helping them get exercise) it is definitely ethical.

Also, people in the country could be crappy pet guardians, just as people in the city can be.

I think you have to make more of an effort in the city, but people need to make an effort anyway.

Ultimately, you're saving an animal from being euthanized. And that is always ethical.
 
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