Is feminism relevant today?

Tame · Feb 4, 2003

As I somewhat sidetracked the other feminist thread, I thought I would start another. 
So the big question - is feminism relevant in today's society? What direction should the movement take? Is sexism impossible to stop? 
Discuss.

1vegan · Feb 5, 2003

So the big question - is feminism relevant in today's society? 
-Yes. As long as people are not overall recognized as equal. 
As long as people say, lets deport all muslims (terrorists), or ask are you gonna keep working after you had the baby? then we man and woman will have to educate that part of civilisation <a href="http://personalweb.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.geocities.com/wwwin/mlking.htm" target="_blank">http://personalweb.about.com/gi/dyna...win/mlking.htm</a> 
Discrimination is a hellhound that gnaws at Negroes in every waking moment of their lives to remind them that the lie of their inferiority is accepted as truth in the society dominating them. Martin Luther King, Jr., speech, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Atlanta, Georgia, August 16, 1967. 
Replace Negroes by woman (or muslim, or animal) What direction should the movement take? 
That question is to big for a humble soul like me. Is sexism impossible to stop? 
Yes, but it will take several years and more woman as ceo in big companys. 
This to stop row-model advertising and so on.

Thalia · Feb 5, 2003

I think we will be a long way there when people ask the man if they want to keep working after the baby and even more so when most men volunteer without being asked to take at least as much time off from work or postpone their work and education for the children. But that is just one issue. 
Both men and women have things they can do to fight sexism. It is something so deeply ingrained in all of us though, that the first step is for men and women to examine their actions, thoughts, speech, and then slowly stop going with the flow. And as long as childbearing and/or childrearing are primarily done by women, appreciating those endevors instead of punishing people for them is a feminist issue. But childbearing and rearing should be supported by who ever does it of course. One of the reasons I feel I may never have children is bc I am unsure how much my husband would participate in the dirty work on top of the housework so that I am not economically, and emotionally hurt disproportionally. 
Here is something I wrote in to my FOX affiliate today: <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">This is in response to the 10 P.M. News teasers Monday night. While I am not at all surprised that you would air a story revealing that Sarah from Joe Millionaire made low-budget B&D films, I was a little surprised and disgusted that your channel repeatedly showed scenes of her tied up and squirming on a bed. Over and over, this image of violence against women in the form of ostensible entertainment while I was trying to watch JM and then the 10 P.M. News. 
What really put me over the edge was that one segment ended with a story about a woman who fought off an attacker who wanted to rape her, then there was a teaser for the next segment about a woman who finally overcame the trauma of rape, IMMEDIATELY followed by an even longer clip of Sarah's film, showing a man grabbing her and then her tied up on the bed. 
HELLO! I do not know what the research has found the effect of portrayls of violence against women as a cause of rape. I don't know. But I do know that showing these too conflicting images, two showing the realities of rape, and the other "entertainment" is a smack in the face to victims of violence, and women who fear violence. 
If FOX forced you to air this, then please pass these comments along to them.</div>
</div>
 
I feel that most sexism isn't calculated, "I am going to discriminate against you" but it is so commonplace that it is hidden in plain view. And it is so accepted that when you point it out, you are accused of being "sensitive" or "PC" like someone else said before. But EVERYONE, men and women have a role to play in stopping it. We can start with ourselves, and then how we raise our children. 
On the issue of wage gap. There are so many issues there, but they are related to feminism. One is that women tend to choose careers that pay less. Like nursing, teaching, social work. Are these valuable to society? Yes, lets show it. ANother issue (supported by research) is that women are willing to work for less and don't realise they can ask for more when negociating. This is a symptom of learning that "niceness and selflessness" is part of being a woman. Women need to shed this, and we need to stop teaching our children this. ANd of course the big thing in the wage gap, having children. half of pregnancies are unplanned, and I think that puts pressure on a couple to keep the larger wage earner working and then other takes time away. Less seniority, education, etc. leads to less pay down the road. Or missing important meetings, travel, making contacts if you feel you are the primary caregiver. Women, men, and employers can change this. And there is still sexism, flat out. I have heard several stories of women being asked at job interviews if they were married, planning to have kids, how that could effect their job. These questions are illegal. One person was told flat out they would not be hired bc they were "at that age". If she had a tape recorder in their, she could've sued. I wish this person had at least reported it.

1vegan · Feb 6, 2003

"One is that women tend to choose careers that pay less. Like nursing, teaching, social work." 
Or these careers pay less because they are done mostly by woman. (?)

GhostUser · Feb 6, 2003

I'm work in the financial industry, a typically male career path. I am paid less than my male counterparts.

Thalia · Feb 6, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by 1vegan "One is that women tend to choose careers that pay less. Like nursing, teaching, social work." 
Or these careers pay less because they are done mostly by woman. (?)</div>
</div>
 
Good point. I heard that all secretaries used to be men and it was a respected, coveted job. Then the war came and women started doing it and wanted to keep their jobs and started to pay less and be less respected. 
I have heard people say that when too many women get into a field, the salaries go down. Why, that is a matter of debate.

1vegan · Feb 6, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by Thalia I have heard people say that when too many women get into a field, the salaries go down. Why, that is a matter of debate.</div>
</div>
 
This might be the because of the shift in demand and offer. 
But that's not the topic. 
I think that woman are not evenly valued as man, though we like or seem to think that we do. 
About the sexuality thing: I can't decide if the "open sexualism" is a product of the "liberation of woman" or a thing that is somehow stimulated by man because man like to see or have it that way.

GhostUser · Feb 6, 2003

Women need to approach things with a higher level of confidence in her abilities in order to be considered seriously. She can't be a bit timid or uncertain. Women need to be solid in their decisions and opinions in order to be successful in the typically male white collar jobs. If not, they will be left questioning her total abilities. And if a mistake is made on her part, the consequences seem to be more magnified and severe than her male counterpart. The higher up the ladder the woman travels, the more political moves she's likely to encounter that challenge her confidence and abilities. These are unseen forces that women shouldn't have to deal with but do, simply because of the fact that they are moving in a male-dominated field. Maybe x amount of years down the road the field will be level. What these women are going through now is very demanding emotionally; but it is not experienced in vain. The women that follow will hopefully not have to deal with glass ceilings, boys clubs, etc. and can actually focus on being a product, successful member of the business world (minus all the bull already mentioned).

Skylark · Feb 6, 2003

One of my Spanish teachers was recently complaining that all of the women she knows who have attained a powerful, sought-after position are the most disagreeable people she knows. She says that these women "act like men" and "there's no point to having a woman in power if she's just going to act like a man!" What do you think?

Kreeli · Feb 6, 2003

i think that women seeking positions of power quickly learn that you can't advance in our system WITHOUT playing like the boys do. and you can't stay "on top" WITHOUT continuing to play like the boys. 
i also don't think that it's fair to say that men's attitudes about business/success are unsavory. i think the behaviour is only really considered unsavory when women do it...which is sexism.

luckiecharms · Feb 6, 2003

No I think there is sexism still around. Why havent we yet had a woman president? And im not sure if its a law or not but i think so but why cant any woman be in the military? I think that there is still sexism becasue people discriminate against us and think we cant handle some of the more tougher jobs and that is quite untrue.

GhostUser · Feb 6, 2003

Most of the people at the top, where I work, are "disagreeable" - it is just the expectation that a woman would not be. 
One legitimate reason for this "personality type" is that people come to us for advise and know-how. They want someone who is authoritative, not "wishy-washy." I think this is harder for /rarer in, women than men. 
The other reason is definitely sexism. No woman is as good. That type of culture breeds itself in the mostly male ranks (mostly male partners and male clients). A couple of times, I have herd men and women making comments about other women (lawyers/clients/other business people) - intelligent women being called called "idiots" and "cheerleaders." Anything that a woman does is subject to criticism and ridicule. 
In addition, men simply prefer to work with men (I am not saying that this is not sexism too). Since most partners are men, it is the guys who get the best assignments and become buddies with the partners. 
I could go on and on, as this is a daily issue in my life.

GhostUser · Feb 6, 2003

Ditto Stem, unfortunately.

Kreeli · Feb 6, 2003

sexism is a daily issue in everyone's lives, stem. even men who think they are unaffected by it. 
for instance, a lot of men can blithely go along in life thinking not one whit about sexism or their male privilege, but how many of those men feel it's okay to open up to people, to cry without feeling embarrassed, to know that it's okay to kiss and hug people without their maculinity being called into question? 
or what about the man that works hard all his life trying to provide for his family but can't ever seem to get ahead, and who feels like "less of a man" because he isn't "bringing home the bacon"? 
or what about the men that can't quite connect with their kids at birth because doing the "baby thing" isn't "manly" enough? they miss out on all the beautiful little moments of bonding that are there for the taking with babies and small children... 
men are stigmatized, pigeonholed and stereotyped by the patriarchy, too...but they experience MORE benefit from it than not, so they rarely feel as though they should "look a gifthorse in the mouth", so to speak. 
sexism affects both genders at every turn.

GhostUser · Feb 7, 2003

Kreeli, you won't hear me disagreeing that sexism limits both women and men.

Kreeli · Feb 7, 2003

oh i didn't think i would. 
i only addressed you because you said that sexism was something you had to deal with on a daily basis; and i wanted to point out that it affected everyone that way. 
i see that you meant it really affects you in your job, perhaps in ways it doesn't affect me in mine, but maybe not...?

Seadolphin · Feb 7, 2003

Unfortunately sexism is still present in our lives today. The school district I work for really penalizes women for going on maternity leave. Many of us here find it extremely unfair that not only does a woman who goes on maternity leave lose all her sick leave for the year, she also loses a year on the pay scale. Very sexist in my opion, & we are fight to get this changed.

majake · Feb 7, 2003

actually SD, i would agree with that policy depending on how much time was taken off for maternity leave. Also if a male took off the same amount time would he lose a year on the pay scale? most likely. Maternity leave is a voluntary leave of absense as the person chooses to have children, it is not forced upon them. The leave should be treated as such. Choosing to have children shouldnt give someone special rights. Also does the women lose her sick leave or does she use it up while she is gone?

holly golightly · Feb 7, 2003

Women typically are not as aggressive as men re pay raises or how much they want to make.

Kreeli · Feb 7, 2003

well, majake, the government here doesn't agree with you. they currently allow either parent to take one year from work (or both parents can split the parental leave up between them) after having a baby, without fear of losing their jobs or taking a cut in wages when they return, and the parents are allowed collect unemployment insurance for the duration. 
i certainly don't think that giving parents the option to stay at home with their wee ones is granting them "special rights"; rather, it is choosing to NOT PENALIZE people for having famillies. 
women are routinely "told" that if they choose to have children, they are selfish if they don't stay home with them. but the same system penalizes the family that chooses to NOT put their kids into the childcare system. it's hypocrisy for the government to blah-dee-blah-dee-blah on and on about "focus on the family" but then penalize the famillies that choose to...well...focus on themselves.

Is feminism relevant today?

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