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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p><br>
I am, I'm constantly posting on FB stuff about the benefits of organic foods, and the need to buy as much organic as possible, etc. The more and more I find out about what is and has already been done with genetically modifying seeds, is driving me nuts!<br><br><br><br>
we know GMOs, cause immune responses in the body, and we also know the Bt toxin has been found in maternal and fetal blood samples in a study in Canada.<br><br><br><br>
Does anyone else try to encourage or educate about Monsanto and the need to grown non GMO seeds, and eat non GMO foods?</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sleepydvdr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111685"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My avatar conveys my feelings.</div>
</div>
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So it does... I noticed it but never really looked closely at it before.<br><br>
BTW I hate Monsanto and all it stands for.
 

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I dislike Monsanto, but not GMO in general.
 

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Down with monsanto. Bottom feeding, money grubbing, monopoly-minded corruption at its worst.
 

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Im positively annoyed that vegans and animal advocates have made Monsanto and GE crops the pet issue of late<br><br><br>
Ive written about my support for GE food from a vegan perspective here: <a href="http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/frankenfood-fears/" target="_blank">Frankenfood Fears</a> and on labeling here: <a href="http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/2011/10/29/food-labeling/" target="_blank">GMO Labeling</a><br>
other GE positive vegans have written some good pieces as well<br><a href="http://veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/10/irri-conducting-genetic-modification-we.html" target="_blank">The IRRI – Conducting Genetic Modification We Can All Support</a> by Vegan Skeptic<br><a href="http://veganskeptic.blogspot.com/2011/10/alexey-surov-and-gm-soy-recurrent-tale.html" target="_blank">Alexey Surov and GM Soy – A Recurrent Tale Against GM Foods</a> by Vegan Skeptic<br><a href="http://pythagoreancrank.com/?p=414" target="_blank">You Say Tomahto, I Say Flavr Savr</a> by Dave D<br><a href="http://pythagoreancrank.com/?p=1504" target="_blank">Vegan GMO Redux</a> by Dave D<br><a href="http://www.podcast.veganchicago.com/" target="_blank">Frankenfood</a>- a talk given by Kevin Folta to a joint gathering of Chicago Skeptics & Vegan Chicago<br><br>
as for the issue of about Bt found in pregnant women and fetuses, well its not quite that simple. That research had a few issue including possible detection error and interpretation. But its also only one GE application.<br>
here is some further info on that subject<br><a href="http://gmopundit.blogspot.com/2011/04/it-you-record-noise-you-dont-get-music.html" target="_blank">If you record noise, you don't get music --- you get nonsense.</a><a href="http://www.biofortified.org/2011/05/there-are-a-lot-of-different-ways-for-bt-proteins-to-get-into-our-food/" target="_blank"><br>
There are a lot of different ways for Bt proteins to get into our food</a><br>
by David Tribe<br><br>
I dont think there is a "need" or even benefit from avoiding GE foods. I think in the end it leaves us worse off and unable to take advantage of useful and beneficial technology.
 

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Oh yeah, I don't trust anything genetically modified. I also recently read about Neotame being allowed to go into even organic prepackaged foods without having to be on the label. The more I learn the more I just want to eat whole organic foods.
 

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I am totally disgusted by Monsatan, and the fact that more and more crops are being allowed to become Gmo's
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dedalus</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111694"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Down with monsanto. Bottom feeding, money grubbing, monopoly-minded corruption at its worst.</div>
</div>
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Yup.
 

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I plan on reading the links Skeptical Veg included but right now I'm firmly in the hate, don't trust Monsanto camp.
 

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I am afraid and angry.<br><br><br>
Laura <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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perhaps folks could list some specific concerns, especially ones that make Monsanto appear particularly bad in relation to other businesses and corporations...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
are you seriously a supporter? there isn't one good thing Monsanto stands for....why don't you list why we shouldn't be afraid....let's see....Walmart is going to start carrying sweet corn that has 3 genetically modified traits this summer....that will be the first Frankenfood with 3 modified traits, and WF and TJ's isn't touching it!<br><br>
I know the study about the Bt in blood isn't conclusive and I've actually found and read the whole study online, and it said it warrented further studies. BUT, the issue is, whether it's in maternal or fetal blood, that the Bt toxin is in human blood at all, which means it has crossed the stomach lining barrier, which Monsanto said that gastric acids would kill off any "problems" and wouldn't harm humans....HELLO>>>>LIES!<br><br>
so, what do you have to say good about them? We already know that organic farming practices works, and I read an article recently that 90% of an organic corn farmer's corn get's shipped to Europe, since our GMO grains aren't allowed in most of those countries. If we can grow organically w/o all of the pesticides/herbicides, than why shouldn't we? Yes, I know about pests and weeds causing loss of crops, but we are really in bad straights and only going downhill.<br>
Have you read Seeds of Destruction?<br><br>
And why is your name Skeptical Vegan? What does that mean anyway?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Photojess</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111949"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
are you seriously a supporter?</div>
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Not so much a supporter, not anymore than other business I have issues with like Whole Foods (which I still shop at anyways)<br>
I just get tired of the Monsanto bashing because many of the stories are either false or are spin and Monsanto is often used as a stand-in for the technology of genetic engineering and biotechnology of which I would say Im a general supporter.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">why don't you list why we shouldn't be afraid</div>
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well <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof" target="_blank">because</a><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Walmart is going to start carrying sweet corn that has 3 genetically modified traits this summer....that will be the first Frankenfood with 3 modified traits, and WF and TJ's isn't touching it!</div>
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but why is that a bad thing. It hasn't been shown to be harmful and may improve corn productivity. Which saves resources and can lower food prices.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I know the study about the Bt in blood isn't conclusive and I've actually found and read the whole study online, and it said it warrented further studies. BUT, the issue is, whether it's in maternal or fetal blood, that the Bt toxin is in human blood at all, which means it has crossed the stomach lining barrier, which Monsanto said that gastric acids would kill off any "problems" and wouldn't harm humans....HELLO>>>>LIES!</div>
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but one of the issue with the research may have been the the detection of the cry protein may have been a false positive. The study needs replication, or better design. I'm all for looking further into the issue but its not good evidence yet nor is it at all evidence of harm.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">so, what do you have to say good about them?</div>
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<br><a href="http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/Vistive-Gold-Soymega-One-Two-Punch-Improved-Oils.aspx" target="_blank">Soymega!</a><br>
also thousands of lives saved from <a href="http://skepticalvegan.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/bt-cotton-farmer-suicides-and-fluffy-thinking/" target="_blank">reduced pesticide poisoning</a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">We already know that organic farming practices works</div>
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organic farming by definition is a limited practice and will never be able to take advantage of the most efficient and environmental friendly inputs of by combing the best of both natural and synthetic inputs while also employing resource efficient farming practices. On the large scale organic isnt Eco-friendly, it can be needlessly land and resource intensive, use some highly toxic natural inputs, and employ non-environmentally friendly farming practices such as tilling for weed management.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Have you read Seeds of Destruction?</div>
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Im familiar with the general contents and arguments from reading parts of it along with various blogs and other media based on it. Ive got a PDF of it, so I can follow along if you wanna reference something in it.<br>
Have you by chance read Just Food<br>
or Tomorrow's Table?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SkepticalVegan</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3111969"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
organic farming by definition is a limited practice and will never be able to take advantage of the most efficient and environmental friendly inputs of by combing the best of both natural and synthetic inputs while also employing resource efficient farming practices. On the large scale organic isnt Eco-friendly, it can be needlessly land and resource intensive, use some highly toxic natural inputs, and employ non-environmentally friendly farming practices such as tilling for weed management.</div>
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I'm guessing that you have a problem with the food system as is, since you say that organic can't take advantage of the more resource efficient blah blah blah, and since current conventional farming absolutely <i>does not</i> employ resource efficient farming practices in the way you say they can, you are speaking of a potential future of farming?<br><br>
If so, I probably agree. If agriculture can use the most efficient and sustainable combination of traditional farming methods and new technological developments I am <i>so</i> for it, organic or not.<br><br>
Cause that would certainly be ideal.<br><br>
I'm not overly concerned with the health implications of gm foods. It needs more study, but similar to the health implications of conventional foods, I just don't think it's the big issue.<br><br>
The issues I have with gmos specifically are terminator genes, proliferation of patented seed, and the fact that many of the gm crops are not designed to reduce pesticide/herbicide use, but to enable the crop to stand up to heavier doses. Also the whole 'superfoods' thing of designing more nutritionally dense foods seems untenable, and even if it worked, it's just a way to let people continue to live without a <i>real</i>, balanced diet. People don't need an omni-food, they need a varied amount of food. There is no substitute.<br><br>
The whole food system is unsustainable, organics included, but conventional especially. The fields are too damn big and homogenous. More diversity, smaller scale and more planning for the future is needed, among other things.<br><br>
Also I should let you know I have no intention of reading your blog, so don't link it for my sake.
 

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Research of GM foods conducted and funded by companies like Monsanto cannot be relied on.<br><br>
Making plants that thrive when sprayed with chemical inventions is not beneficial to anyone but the people selling the chemicals.<br><br>
Creating plants that do not produce seeds to save for future planting does not benefit anyone except the people selling the plants.<br><br>
Just a few examples.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I'm guessing that you have a problem with the food system as is</div>
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much of it yes<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">you are speaking of a potential future of farming?</div>
</div>
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integrative farming is already in use, not widespread enough, and has <a href="http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-productive-farms-greener.html" target="_blank">shown benefits</a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">The issues I have with gmos specifically are terminator genes</div>
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well then you may be happy to hear that terminator seed (GURT) was NEVER commercialized, political pressure was too great.<br>
Though I do wish more anti-gmo activists were aware of this, it appears many are under the false impression that current GE seed uses GURT<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">the fact that many of the gm crops are not designed to reduce pesticide/herbicide use</div>
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actually that is what Bt crop are specifically designed to do, and have <a href="http://sourcedb.cas.cn/sourcedb_igsnrr_cas/zw/lw/200906/P020090625728822004338.pdf" target="_blank">reduced pesticide spraying</a><br>
Herbicide tolerate crops have shifted to herbicide profile toward less toxic, faster degrading alternatives such as atrazine. They weren't about reducing amounts so much as shifting types to be less toxic.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Also the whole 'superfoods' thing of designing more nutritionally dense foods seems untenable...</div>
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So what is this Wholefood source of B12 for vegans? You do realize that much of the B12 supplements are actually derived from GE bacteria. Also Soymega, a soybean oil that has omega fatty acids, may hit the market as early as this or next year.<br>
In addition to GE, humans have created healthier varieties of crops through hybridization as well.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Research of GM foods conducted and funded by companies like Monsanto cannot be relied on.</div>
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I dont rely only on industry funded studies, I look at <a href="http://www.biofortified.org/genera/studies-for-genera/" target="_blank">others</a> as well. There is actually a decent amount of <a href="http://www.biofortified.org/genera/studies-for-genera/independent-funding/" target="_blank">independent research</a> out there as well.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Creating plants that do not produce seeds to save for future planting does not benefit anyone except the people selling the plants.</div>
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actually in general 2nd generation GMO seed is viable, its just not legal to replant for a few reasons, one being that the GM traits will not breed true to all the offspring resulting in diminished performance over time and hurting the brand image as well. But not being able to save seed isnt new or unique to GMOs, intellectual property protection such as plant variety protection exists for non-gmo crops as well. Also the majority of non-GMO staple crops in production are hybrids which <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1_hybrid#Disadvantages" target="_blank">do not breed true</a> and seed much be repurchased each year anyways. In the end the farmer usually makes the decision of what seed to purchase, its their option.
 
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