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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quote:
There is no divisineness in this cause. There's those for animal abolition and those that are not.
- a quote in the comment section of a friend's Facebook post about the VegNews debacle.

Does anyone else see the irony in this quote?


FWIW I am neither an abolitionist nor a welfarist.
 

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4-million dollars! Do you realize how many lottery tickets you could buy with that?
 

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I try.


Not to derail your thread, but if you're not an animal welfarist, do you mean that your veg*n for reasons other than the animals welfare, or just that you aren't an active advocate? Just curious.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyanocobalamin View Post

FWIW I am neither an abolitionist nor a welfarist.
I'm both.

Here's an inconsistency I see a lot, on a related note.

I see a lot of irony and contradiction in people's words when they rant and rave about wanting animals to be free or live better lives but actually oppose animal protection measures when they appear on the ballot, or waste their energy boycotting Silk soymilk or other animal product free foods because at some level, some unethical corporation profits from it. It's not like they're using the money they make from Silk to produce cow milk. If that's the part of the company that gets the money, that's the part that grows. Slavery wasn't abolished because people boycotted chains, or cotton.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh James xVx View Post

I'm both.

Here's an inconsistency I see a lot, on a related note.

I see a lot of irony and contradiction in people's words when they rant and rave about wanting animals to be free or live better lives but actually oppose animal protection measures when they appear on the ballot, or waste their energy boycotting Silk soymilk or other animal product free foods because at some level, some unethical corporation profits from it. It's not like they're using the money they make from Silk to produce cow milk. If that's the part of the company that gets the money, that's the part that grows. Slavery wasn't abolished because people boycotted chains, or cotton.
You really don't see the link...?
 

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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post

You really don't see the link...?
I see lots of links. I like some of the links I see. I post some of the links I see. The ones that make sense.

What I'm trying to help bring about is tangible positive change in the world for animals. It's perfectly logical that the more veg*n products are widely available for the consuming public, the easier it will be to make nonviolent or less violent meal decisions, which will tangibly save many animals in the long run. I see nothing in boycotting companies producing vegan items or restaurants promoting vegan menu options that actually helps animals. Nothing about that type of misdirected anger gets me from where I am to where I want to be. The undeniable bottom line is suffering. There is massive suffering in this world, and there are tangible steps we can take to reduce it. My approach isn't as glamorous or as starry eyed as some, but when a person is paying for a veggie burger or a glass of soy milk, they're not paying for a beef burger or a glass or dairy milk.

You really don't see the link...?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Well here's some irony. How exactly does one waste energy by not doing something?
I suppose it's a matter of semantics. In this sense, boycotting is a proactive stance in which one not only doesn't do something but expends a disproportionate amount of time and energy trying to get other people not to do it as well.

For instance, this Thursday I'll be blessed enough and fortunate enough to have an opportunity to stand on a college campus for three or four hours with some very dedicated people I barely deserve to have in my life, and we'll have the opportunity to take advantage of low hanging fruit by leafleting to college aged students with booklets which show the hidden realities of factory farms and ask them to boycott those products in favor of plant based meals.

This is an example of using time and energy to promote not buying something. The difference between this and attacking a specific brand, especially one that actually doesn't directly exploit animals, is that in this case me and my infinitely more capable and admirable friends (I'm barely worthy of working with such wonderful people, truly) will be doing something that's not being accomplished in this thread - whereas we're established veg*ns relatively set in our ways, and this argument here really isn't going to change anybody's mind, going out and reaching people who are not yet veg*n will have a much bigger impact on the world. Imagine the profound impact that helping to convert even one veg*n will have. On Wednesday, some of these kids will be walking around eating meat, not questioning where it comes from at all. We'll reach over 1,000 of them on Thursday and probably convince a few dozen to cut back severely at the very least. Those few dozen people will probably spare about 2000 animals apiece over the next fifty years.

That's what really counts, and that's the type of work I really hope continues to grow in this movement, and those of you who aren't already out there on the streets helping us with this important work every week are more than welcome to join us. Despite our personal differences, reducing suffering is what really matters.

Wouldn't you agree? We're all moral agents who have the power to change this world for the better!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh James xVx View Post

I suppose it's a matter of semantics. In this sense, boycotting is a proactive stance in which one not only doesn't do something but expends a disproportionate amount of time and energy trying to get other people not to do it as well.

For instance, this Thursday I'll be blessed enough and fortunate enough to have an opportunity to stand on a college campus for three or four hours with some very dedicated people I barely deserve to have in my life, and we'll have the opportunity to take advantage of low hanging fruit by leafleting to college aged students with booklets which show the hidden realities of factory farms and ask them to boycott those products in favor of plant based meals.

This is an example of using time and energy to promote not buying something. The difference between this and attacking a specific brand, especially one that actually doesn't directly exploit animals, is that in this case me and my infinitely more capable and admirable friends (I'm barely worthy of working with such wonderful people, truly) will be doing something that's not being accomplished in this thread - whereas we're established veg*ns relatively set in our ways, and this argument here really isn't going to change anybody's mind, going out and reaching people who are not yet veg*n will have a much bigger impact on the world. Imagine the profound impact that helping to convert even one veg*n will have. On Wednesday, some of these kids will be walking around eating meat, not questioning where it comes from at all. We'll reach over 1,000 of them on Thursday and probably convince a few dozen to cut back severely at the very least. Those few dozen people will probably spare about 2000 animals apiece over the next fifty years.

That's what really counts, and that's the type of work I really hope continues to grow in this movement, and those of you who aren't already out there on the streets helping us with this important work every week are more than welcome to join us. Despite our personal differences, reducing suffering is what really matters.

Wouldn't you agree? We're all moral agents who have the power to change this world for the better!
I find irony in the fact that you are spending a disproportionate amount of time chiding others for boycotting instead of doing something more effective.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by obankobi View Post

I try.


Not to derail your thread, but if you're not an animal welfarist, do you mean that your veg*n for reasons other than the animals welfare, or just that you aren't an active advocate? Just curious.
I'm a vegan for ethical reasons. I do not consider myself a welfarist and I do not consider myself an abolitionist.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post

4-million dollars! Do you realize how many lottery tickets you could buy with that?
This made me chuckle.

About Silk soymilk and boycotts: I think that a fair number of vegans overestimate the effects of their consumer actions and underestimate the effects of other actions they could take. They inflate their influence on the outer world when it comes to their puchases and they deflate their influence when it comes to convincing others to respect animals.

The reality is that veganism - true veganism - is NOT a boycott. It's not about where your money goes. Veganism is a way of life wherein people do not consume animal products (in the form of food, clothing, entertainment, etc.), period. It's not about what companies you support. It's not even about ideology. It's about behaviors/ habits that avoid animal products as much as possible and practical, at the minimum an avoidance of animal flesh and secretions.

If vegans choose to avoid Silk, it doesn't matter. If vegans choose to buy Silk, it doesn't matter either. Vegans' nickels and dimes won't make or break the brand because the product isn't specifically for vegans. That's because vegans are NOT the target consumers for Silk. NONvegans are the target consumers.

Don't overinflate what your pennies can do for animals. Instead, look to what YOU can do for animals. Do vegan education, leaflet, blog, get active.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capstan View Post

4-million dollars! Do you realize how many lottery tickets you could buy with that?
This made me chuckle.
I stole that. It's a line from Million Dollar Mystery, a remake of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.

Quote:
Don't overinflate what your pennies can do for animals. Instead, look to what YOU can do for animals. Do vegan education, leaflet, blog, get active.
Yes.
 
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