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My dad said last night:<br><br><br><br><i>"So if you don't want all the animals in the world to be killed, where are you going to put them? Isn't killing a rational idea for preventing overpopulation?"</i><br><br><br><br>
My reply sounded kind of weak:<br><br><br><br><i>"Well, I don't know where they'd be put, but maybe if they stopped mass producing them, they're would be less. Can't mankind come up with a more creative means of dealing with overpopulation than murder?"</i><br><br><br><br>
He still kind of had me beat though.<br><br>
Where WOULD we put them?
 

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Cows, pigs, chickens etc. exist only because we breed them for consumption. If we stop eating meat, then they don't exist and there's no "overpopulation". (To which he'd probably ask "how can vegetarianism be right then if it means they don't exist??" to which one can answer that species don't have rights, only living sentient individuals have them.)<br><br><br><br>
As to hunted animals, nature has its way of dealing with overpopulation.
 

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Sevenseas is right (as usual). Most of these animals are bred through artifical insemination. They would not be bred if the farmer did not feel that money could be made through doing so. If everyone was a vegetarian then there would be no money to be made - therefore no breeding - therefore no animals to put anywhere. Everyone will not become a vegetarian overnight. Under the super slim chance that everyone became a vegetarian over a period of a several years the "problem" would solve itself. Most animals bred for consumption are killed within a year of birth.
 

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That, in my opinion, is one of the saddest excuses for eating meat that I've ever seen.<br><br><br><br>
What "they" are trying to say, is that they're eating meat to try solve a problem that not only have they themselves created, but by trying to solve it they're causing new problems, which will be fun trying to solve. Let me explain. They're eating meat, because of the so-called overpopulation. Overpopulation was caused due to the mass production of cows, chickens, etc. And now, because of this, we've got new problems. The environment is suffering, and as much as they try to argue their way out of this one, they can't run from the truth. Small farms are being shut down, because they can't compete with the low prices that factory farms are able to offer to the consumer. And don't even get me started on animal rights - the reason why slaughterhouses don't have glass windows is so that "they" can lie to themselves, and rest easy at night.<br><br><br><br>
But let's take a bite of steak, to "ease overpopulation". <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/brood.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":brood:">
 

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Don't worry, I'm a bad debater too. Someone will ask me a question, all of my pre-thought-out answers will immediately leave my mind and I'll give some weak answer, that more likely than not, helps THEIR argument, not mine, and 10 minutes later, the perfect answer will pop into my mind and i'll kick myself for not thinking of it in the moment.<br><br><br><br>
Example:<br><br>
My omni coworker: "You think veganism is healthier? What if we both went to the doctor and got blood tests and my test came out with healthier results than yours?"<br><br>
Me: "Then I guess I'd have to eat healthier!" WTF? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wall.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":wall:"><br><br><br><br>
Ten minutes later, this popped into my head: "What about our chesterol levels? Would that really be possible? I don't eat any cholesterol, except the very little I get in processed food, and you eat plenty because you eat animal products, so how could my cholesterol level be higher than yours?" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/idea2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":idea:"><br><br><br><br>
I thought it was pathetic to give a rebuttal to an argument 10 minuntes after the fact, and i didn't want to start the debate back up again, so I jsut kept my mouth shut.<br><br><br><br>
Needless to say, I rarely rarely debate about anything.
 

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I too am no good at it. I KNOW the answers to their questions but for some reason it always comes across all wrong and then they feel all happy that they are doing the right thing simply because I was bad at explaining <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wall.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":wall:">
 

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Yea, the only reason why we have so many animals is because we overproduce them for food. Nature would take care of itself if everyone stopped eating meat, just like it was way back when...<br><br>
If you are a bad debater, like me, read this great book. "The New Becoming Vegetarian"- I can't remember the authors names, but it is the only one out there. I found it at Barnes and Noble. It helps you with questions like that.
 

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Don't be too hard on yourself about not having all the answers. Ultimately, people that are wanting to engage you in debating or arguments are just wanting to find holes in your beliefs so that THEY can feel better about their consumption of animals and animal products.<br><br><br><br>
What's great is that YOU believe in what you're doing and that you are making a difference.<br><br><br><br>
Definitely keep posting here and keep up as many contacts with vegetarians and vegans that you can - you'll feel less isolated and more ready to take others on (if you want) when someone else is just trying to assauge their own guilt!
 

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I feel like a bad debator as well. I only come up with an appropriate response about fifteen minutes later. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/brood.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":brood:"> I suggest "Witty Replies to Stupid Things Omnivores Say" thread. Write them down in a notebook...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/naughty.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":naughty:">
 

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Mmm I got in a row with my omni dad yesterday, I'm no good at debating with him, he knows a lot but I don't think he's always right. It started because I didn't want to eat some apple pie he had bought because I didn't know what was in it, he was saying it was quite pedantic and that there's no need for different categories like vegetarian and vegan because that way it just becomes extremism. He didn't mean he was opposed to it but when I said the animal industry was pretty extreme, he said that you can't fight extremism with extremism. I got really frustrated because it's really important to me, we always fight like this anyway and it's pointless...<br><br><br><br>
We made up in the end and he said he understood and that he's proud of everything I do to try and make a difference and stuff but it wasted about an hour of my evening and then I stayed up really reallylate to finish off my work. Sigh.
 

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Congrats on going vegan llamapower!<br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/carrot.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":vebo:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/pibo.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":pibo:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/broccoli.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":bobo:"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dancingbanana.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":nana:">
 

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I could debate until my last breath! Seriously... I pull things out of nowhere! That can be a bad thing though because I can go on forever. Fights continue.
 
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