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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This probably won't come as a surprise to anyone here...<br><br><br><br>
Last week my wife took our 15 month old son to the doctor for a checkup. The doctor asked if he was eating meat. my wife responded, "no, we are vegetarians".<br><br><br><br>
The doctor then started asking what his diet consisted of and was concerned that he might not be getting enough protein.<br><br><br><br>
My wife told him, and he didn't make a big deal out of it.<br><br><br><br>
However, a few days later, we receive a letter in the mail from the doctor on protien combining. (a pamphlet he photocopied from somewhere)<br><br><br><br>
It just goes to show how most doctors know virtually nothing about nutrition, or the knoweledge they do have, is grossly outdated.<br><br><br><br>
I though I'd send him an article from the Physicians committee for responsible medicine, but my wife said to just "let it go".<br><br><br><br>
It's this type of ignorance that made me into a militant veggie years ago. I feel it coming back.<br><br><br><br>
"Dont make me angry. You wouldn't like it when I'm angry."<br><br>
- Bruce Banner...the original Incredible Hulk.<br><br><br><br>
I'm done venting.<br><br><br><br>
Beancounter
 

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I'd very tactuflly say thank you for the info and ask for additional info relative to the info he provided -- who wrote it, and what their credentials were.<br><br><br><br>
And if he argues with you, a more convincing source of info than a veg org would be a neutral org -- like the American Dietetic Association, which wrote a position paper on veg diets. Veggiboarders here knowwhere to find it. I'm having trouble remembering its address.
 

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I don't know, at least he seemed concerned. It is your child and to be honest I'd be concerned if the doctor didn't ask questions to ensure he (or she) was receiving the proper diet. Unless you left something out it doesn't sound like he was condescending or pushy. You don't even say that he suggested you feed the child meat, only that he needed more protein or a better combination of proteins. Like I said, you could have left that out, I don't know.<br><br><br><br>
Anyway, here's one link to the ADA...<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.eatright.org/Public/NutritionInformation/92_nfs95.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.eatright.org/Public/Nutri...n/92_nfs95.cfm</a><br><br><br><br>
If you do a search in the upper right-hand corner of their site for 'vegetarian' it'll pull up tons of stuff.
 

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Ah, here it is<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.adajournal.org/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB&searchDBfor=art&artType=full&id=ajada50142" target="_blank">http://www.adajournal.org/scripts/om...&id=ajada50142</a>
 

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I agree it indicates "ignorance" of the facts, however as as M suggested, he is probably doing this more to communicate to you that he cares about the well-being of your children, then to be a big boss coercive manipulator diet policeman. That's why i suggest tact and gentleness in asking who wrote the material. As if you are interested in researching it further, rather than in arguing with him.
 

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Wasn't that whole "protein-combining" myth laid to rest decades ago? I would want to mail him back more updated info on the subject, since it sounds like his info comes from the early 70's. Makes you wonder what other advances in medical science he is ignorant of.<br><br><br><br>
You could also send him some info from famed baby doctor Dr. Spock, who in the last edition of his renowned baby book he advocated a vegetarian diet for children.
 

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Jadzia writes:<br><br>
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Makes you wonder what other advances in medical science he is ignorant of.<br><br>
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Hee hee hee.
 

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Do bear in mind that most doctors are not nutritionists. Doctors are taught how to deal with diseases and to diagnose diseases, not about nutrition.
 

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I think he was trying to do what he thinks was best, but I <i>would</i> try to send some more recent nutritional information to him if you can manage it in a tactful way.<br><br><br><br>
I was lucky with my old doctor. She didn't know much about vegetarianism, and when she heard that's what my diet was, she went out and researched it and at the next appointment told me I was doing great things for my health. She also suggested making minor changes in my diet (that fit within my vegetarianism) when I was anemic rather than making me take iron pills. I'm going to miss her... I get a new doctor this summer. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("> My point, though (yes there is one in this tangent), is that your doctor could be equally wonderful and informed if he were to read some more recent research. Like Michael said, he didn't sound anti-veg, he just isn't aware of the fact that protein-combining isn't something to be concerned about.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Do bear in mind that most doctors are not nutritionists. Doctors are taught how to deal with diseases and to diagnose diseases, not about nutrition.</div>
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That's true. If fact, about 15 years ago I took a nutritional science course at a community college. The teacher told us that medical doctors are not required to take courses in nutrition and that after we complete the course we will probably know more about nutrition than most doctors. That's surprising since nutrition can cause medical problems. I wonder if that is still the case today for new graduates. My personal physician seems to know a lot though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks to everyone for your input, and the links!!<br><br><br><br>
I wasn't implying that he was being pushy. It's just his outdated info ("from the 70's" as Jadzia mentioned) that got me irked.<br><br><br><br>
Good intentions or not, he shouldn't be dispensing old info. As Loki mentioned, most doctors are not trained as nutritionist, so it would have been prudent for him to refer my wife to a nutritionist.<br><br><br><br>
My wife didn't say why he asked if our son ate meat. Do omni children start eating meat at 15 months?<br><br><br><br>
Beancounter
 

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Jadzia, protein-combining isn't a myth. It does help ensure a high utilization of amino acids. But, the thing is that vegetarians with a reasonably varied diet don't have to worry about it because it takes place naturally. Now they say that if you get a good balance of amino acids over the course of the day you should be OK; you don't have to balance amino acids at every meal. And, this takes place naturally with a reasonably balanced diet. And some vegetarian foods, soy foods are a good example, have a good amino acid balance.
 

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i'm a med student and i was taught about 4 hours of nutrition over the course of 2 days. i was mostly taught vitamin deficiencies. i memorized what i needed to know for the test and after that it gets washed out of my brain. i get bombarded with so much info that it's impossible to remember everything. the only reason i know it's not necessary to combine proteins is because i'm vegan and i researched it on my own.<br><br><br><br>
in defense of the doctor, it's just impossible to keep up with all medical advances. doctors have pick and choose what to keep up with depending on what they see in their practice. i can easily see how your doctor could miss the new info on protein combining.
 

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Indeed, just like there is no proof that taking all 8 dietarily essential amino acids within a short time of each other better more efficient utilization of the amino acids, there is no proof that there is any harm in making sure you get all 8 dietarily essential amino acids. And it is nice to know which foods complement each other, even if you know you can wait hours and hours between taking the 2 foods, instead of having to take them at the same time.<br><br><br><br>
When I'm eating my low-protein grains -- that is usually when the thought enters my mind, that I ought to have a few legumes too, and then is when I often take them -- before I forget.<br><br><br><br>
Thus I often smear hummus on my corn tortillas, or wheat pita breads, put edamame or chik peas or lentils in my rice. I add sweet corn to my smashetopaters. I really don't know if I'm getting a full course of all 8 d.e. amino acids when I eat these combination tho. It's more like I don't want to overdo legumes and get gas, so I eat a grain, or topaters, with them.
 

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We do need to get all 8 (the body makes the rest) aminos to function, but not at the same meal. we don't have to combine at the same meal.
 

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Bear in mind it´s 10 essential amino acids for infants!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Bear in mind it´s 10 essential amino acids for infants!</div>
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That's a very important point. Much of the nutritional information you see has to do with adults. Nutrition for children is somewhat different.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Beancounter</i><br><br><b>My wife didn't say why he asked if our son ate meat. Do omni children start eating meat at 15 months?<br><br>
Beancounter</b></div>
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I was also wondering why he asked.<br><br><br><br>
Yes, omni children are introduced to meat early (ever seen those little baby food jars of the stuff?) When my first child was as young as 9 months old I was told that I could smear baby food meat on bread or crackers cut into finger size sandwiches just as if it were peanut butter.<br><br><br><br>
There are so many parents out there who have even less nutritional information then doc's with their two-hour cram session. I have worked at a grocery story and observed what was bought for children; I work at a school and cannot believe what is provided for lunches (often after a brightly colored sugar sweet cereal, sometimes served dry). At least this doctor is asking. It is my observation that many children get white enriched flour, sugar and more sugar when they are not eating fast food with all its added fat.<br><br><br><br>
When my son's girlfriends three-year-old stays with me it is a struggle to find something that he will eat. (He is not usually even interested in eating) She has been on her own since she was about 15 and hardly knows how to cook. She is learning and my son is a great cook. She is very interested in how I eat, in my garden, in going to farmers markets with me, but her son, oh my gosh. At three years old that little boy has very bad teeth and seldom sees a doctor except in emergencies (sometimes the aid car is her only ride to the doctor). Fruit and vegetables are rejected because they feel icky to him. He LOVES candy. If I make small enough servings he might try some grains and raisins. I usually get to have him over on a last minute basis so I don't always have time to make something he might like. I do not know how he might respond to soup; I know he rejects even white pasta dishes and potatoes. He will eat French toast I am told, that is what they make for him in case he will not eat dinner with them.)<br><br><br><br>
It was so easy with my own, they were willing to try just about anything, and I was also eating cheese and eggs when they were small though. I did not have to keep them level until mom got home and I do with T. It is tough and I am actually amazed that some overworked pediatrician took the time to send you some kind of information. I would not take it as an insult, and you could send him something better, or you could even send him a note of thanks with information about your philosophy of food, but he would probably need to present it to his associates before he could offer it to other children.<br><br><br><br>
Kamila ... who wonders about that whole combining thing when even F.M.-L. has rejected it in her newer books.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Kyo</i><br><br><b>Jadzia, protein-combining isn't a myth. It does help ensure a high utilization of amino acids. But, the thing is that vegetarians with a reasonably varied diet don't have to worry about it because it takes place naturally. Now they say that if you get a good balance of amino acids over the course of the day you should be OK; you don't have to balance amino acids at every meal. And, this takes place naturally with a reasonably balanced diet. And some vegetarian foods, soy foods are a good example, have a good amino acid balance.</b></div>
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It is indeed a myth that vegetarians have to carefully plan their meals and combine proteins in order to get adequate protein. This notion was popularized in the 1970's by Francis Moore Lappe's book "Diet for a Small Planet" but was later corrected in revised editions. This myth still gets perpetuated as fact, by doctors and even by many vegetarians.<br><br><br><br>
The fact is it would be extremely hard to not eat enough protein, unless you were only eating a diet of just one type of food and who does that? It is also a myth that plant foods lack certain amino acids-- they have them all just more quantities in some but not others.<br><br><br><br>
The whole idea of protein-combining is based on an outdated theory. Even the ADA now says that as long as you are eating enough calories from varied sources, protein is a non-issue.<br><br><br><br>
Most people don't realize that spianch is 50% protein! There is more protein in 100 calories of broccoli than there is in a 100 calories of steak. I recommend Dr. Joel Fuhrman's book "Eat to Live" which has some great info about this. I have been a vegetarian for over 11 years and I learned so much from this book.
 

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Raw spinach is 2.86 percen protein, not 50 percent. Raw uncooked dry soybeans are 36.49 percent.<br><br><br><br>
Soybeans are higher in protein? Yes, but only by a little bit, if you adjust for water content before compaing protein proportion, that is, if you compare protein as a portion of total "solids," of total dry weight, rather the protein as a portion of hydrated weight.<br><br><br><br>
Spinach is 91.6 percetn water. Soybeans, are 8.45 percent water.<br><br><br><br>
Let's do it. Discounting their water content, spinach is 34 percent protein; raw, dry soybeans are 40 percent.<br><br><br><br>
But that still isn't the whole story: steam a pound of spinach in an inch of water and you have 2 big portions of spinach. Each portion has 6.48 grams of protein (if you eat the 1/2 the steaming water, where some of the protein goes, as well as eat the cooked spinach).<br><br><br><br>
Edit: I'd estimate you are talking about ending up with 2/3 of a cup of cooked spinach, to have 6.48 grams of protein. Not too much to eat at one sitting.<br><br><br><br>
Now, how many pounds of raw dry soybeans do you have to eat to get 6.48 grams of protein? .039 pounds. (Think 25 servings in a one pound bag of dry soybeans.) If soybeans absorb twice their weight in water (i'm just guessing) that's about .12 pounds of cooked soybeans, which is roughly equal to about a 1/4 of a cup of cooked soybeans -- a good sized portion of soybeans. Edit: turns out that .12 pounds is more like 1/3 of a cup.<br><br><br><br>
So it turns out that 2/3 cup cooked spinach has about the same amt of protein as 1/3 cup of cooked soybeans. <b><span style="color:#FF0000;">However that 2/3 cup of spinach may slip down your esophagus easier than 1/3 cup of soybeans.</span></b> And be easier on you digestive system as it passes thru.<br><br><br><br>
But no, spinach is not 50 percent protein. It might be 50 percent of its calories are from protein, but not 50 percent by weight.
 
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