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Quote:
Originally posted by skylark

Joe brought up a good point- for those who do not adopt the "In case of a disagreement, he's right" position, how do couples resolve their disputes?

I don't mean to belabor semantics, but it's not " ... he's right" but " ... he decides." There is a big difference, IMHO.

Suppose a couple agreed that in case of disagreement, they would flip a coin to resolve their disputes. In this case, you would not say the coin was "right" only that the flip "decided" which alternative would be adopted.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Life2k

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you describing a team where he is the team captain and you are his assistant? I don't call that submission so much as teamwork for the good of the family. I was thinking of a relationship where he treats her like I have the brain of the family, this is not open to negociations. I was defining submission in much stricter terms than that. I have no problem with cooperative submission with the woman's opinion held in the highest respect as advisor. I just don't believe anyone should be someone else's carpet. Not trying to start something, just trying to clarify.

Life
I think this is what Paul meant when he wrote " ... wives obey your husbands ... husbands love your wives ... ."

Whatever.

I think that a couple has to adopt some formula for resolving disputes, and I think the couple has to have some means of cooperating for the good of the marriage/family unit.
 

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"In case of a disagreement, he's right" position, how do couples resolve their disputes?"

sometimes we do it my way, sometimes we do it his way and sometimes we find a way somewhere in the middle. it's not about who compromises more, it all works out. why should the man be the default decision maker when the two partners can't come to an agreement? maybe it's just the person i am, but i'd rather burn for eternity than be with someone who thought that they should get the final say on stuff all the time. i don't except to be the default, why should he?
 

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but why does a relationship need a "leader" or a "captain"? i think a good relationship uses the strengths from each partner, so they each get to sort of take the lead on the stuff that they are good at- like i might be really good at finances and my partner really good and interested in decorating, so we each sort of take charge of those areas, with input from the other. but there is no 'overall' leader. no default decision maker.
 

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i guess i still have a problem with "cooperative submission".... which starts with the fact that i don't think that anyone should have to be submissive in a relationship no matter what sort of descriptive you put in front of the word 'submissive'. to me submissive means 'less than' it doesn't mean 'equal' and i have a problem with the view that women should be less than their partners. whatever turns your crank, i guess, but personally i couldn't live with it.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by VealPrincess {snipped}

i don't think that anyone should have to be submissive in a relationship .... to me submissive means 'less than' it doesn't mean 'equal' and i have a problem with the view that women should be less than their partners. whatever turns your crank, i guess, but personally i couldn't live with it.
Fortunately, we're in a society in which you don't have to live with it.
I'm so thankful that I can choose what works best for my relationship, and you can choose what works best for yours. So please understand right off the bat, I'm not trying to tell other people what they should do with their relationships--I'm just explaining what works for mine.

Many couples have disagreements or arguments: how to spend the money, what needs to be done to the house, what to do during their free time together, etc. With some couples, over time, it gets to the point where they're not actually disagreeing over the issue at hand, but they've engaged in a power struggle over who is "right" or who "gets their way" in the debate. This is especially easy to see in couples who bicker over "little things" like which restaurant to eat at, what movie to see, or even the classic "seat up/seat down" bathroom argument. Are these truly momentous decisions? No... but some couples fight tooth-and-nail about them.

I know that my husband isn't out just to fulfill his ego or his personal whims, which is why I'm able to trust him to make decisions. I'm perfectly capable of running the show, but I choose not to do so, and he enjoys the fact that I've invested trust in him.

Most of the time, when there's a decision to be made, my husband asks my input. I tell him what I want, but not what I think he should or shouldn't do. I just state my opinion. ("I'd like to put money into a vacation fund" rather than "I think you should put that money back for vacation instead of making a double payment on the car because once it's gone, it's gone.") In other words, I express my opinion without trying to control him.

In theory, this sounds really scary to some people! Why invest power in somebody else when they might walk on you?

In practice, it works quite well for us. Because he knows he has the final say when we disagree, he's more willing to grant my wishes. I'd even say that I get "my way" even more than half the time, without having to negotiate for/argue over/fight about/justify it... because he's in a position to be generous, rather than having to struggle or negotiate for an opportunity to have things his way.

We never have a conversation without "I love you" in it, and he's very, very physically affectionate. And he's considerate of me. It's my belief that, since he knows that I trust and depend on him to make responsible choices, he really takes it to heart.

After all... what man wants to disappoint the woman he loves?
 

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i agree that every person needs to figure out how they work best within a relationship. but how many women are submissive because they truly want to be, or because that is what they believe they should be beause of the bible or because of what their parents taught them or whatever? is being submissive a free choice more often then not?

for example: i saw this documentary of this polygamous (sp?!) family that followed the bible strictly, or at least said they did- the women all wore skirts, stayed at home and the roles were of a more traditional nature (well, maybe except for the polygamous part!).... ANYWAYS, the camera person asked the children what they wanted to be when they grew up- the boys all said things you'd expected from kids their age- firefighter, policeman etc. and each of them had different aspirations. what did all the girls say? well, from age 4 to 16- all of them said they wanted to be mothers and stay at home with their children.

my conclusion- someone has taught those girls that staying at home is the only acceptable, good, noble (whatever) choice. for them all to answer the same thing, i wouldn't think that was normal. and it just reminds me of the submissive thing- were these women taught that this was the acceptable way to live, or did they have to think about it for themselves and make a their own decision. i know it's a fine line, but it just makes me wonder.

and their isn't much more that i hate than not giving girls all of the options that boys have.

sorry to get off topic!

with that said, if it works for you, it's really none of my business.
 

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I definitely see what you're saying; however, I don't think the example you cite is the norm in today's society.

But, just out of curiosity... what would you like to see done in the situation you mentioned? What about in other cultures or religious practices? Do they have a right to determine their own societal rules, or is our concept of "social equity" applicable to every culture/religion, no matter what its structure? Do we have a right to go into a culture which is historically patriarchal and upset the balance of gender roles between the men and women by telling the women they should consider rejecting the traditional role of stay-at-home wife and mother?

I'm not really up for debating these questions--I guess I just wanted to toss the topic out there.

Maybe submission is my form of rebellion...? My parents raised me to be an independent, career-minded woman who doesn't have to depend on a man to make her way in life. And look what I've become! Haha!


The fact is, I feel more comfortable playing a support role than having to worry whether I'm doing the right/best/proper thing all the time. When I was teaching, I was in charge of over 150 students (as a band and choir director) and was constantly up to my eyeballs in decision-making. And now, as a nanny, it's up to me to make most of the day-to-day decisions that affect the childrens' lives. At the end of the day, it's great to be able to let my hair down and let somebody else take the reins.
 
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