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<a href="http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/i-am-not-going-to-apologize-thoughts-on-anger-and-activism/" target="_blank">http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animal...-and-activism/</a><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">It seems that the perception is that its okay for other movements to have a free license to be as loud and aggressive as they seem fit, but because our cause involves animals, we need to somehow behave ourselves so as not to disturb or upset people. Why is that? What happens to animals IS upsetting and it should disturb people. Is it the assumption that because eating meat, wearing fur, boiling lobsters alive, hooking fish, using animals for research, etc. are all legal (at least for now) and involve free choice that we need to somehow not infringe on peoples comfort levels? Why do many of us feel like we must tiptoe around issues so as not to seem like we are forcing our beliefs down peoples throats? Its almost like we are supposed to feel embarrassed by being animal rights activists like animal abuses are less than their human counterparts. Sorry, but to me, this is Bull.</div>
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I often struggle with finding the most effective way to deal with people and wonder how much I should hold back, this is some nice food for thought.<br><br>
I agree with the author's main point about the dangers of staying silent and doing nothing, but you can speak up and still be friendly and polite. It depends on the situation I suppose.
 

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This is food for thought, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:"> So much so that I am still ruminating, lol. My initial reaction is to say that I do not like loud and aggressive people, so you won't get any points across to me using that method. I think it is ok to speak your mind/truth/infringe on someone's comfort zone if you are comfortable doing so, but it does matter how you do it. It is, or at least should, be possible to do so without being obnoxious, rude, crude, etc.<br><br>
I think too many people use "freedom of speech" as an excuse to be rude, mean and disrespectful.
 

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I think anger is justified and inevitable. Any social change movement will involve some anger and some acts that outsiders view as rude. It can be a necessary component of some actions/campaigns. But it won't be good in every situation. The benefits of both hostility and politeness are contextual. Depends on the situation!
 

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There are certain truths (usualy blatantly obvious ones) which engender hostility in those who need them not to be true.<br><br>
Being polite about the delivery of such truths is fun but excrutiatingly cruel.<br><br>
Being rude is kinder and it saves a lot of time.
 

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I think being aggressive would reach some people and totally alienate others but saying that I met a few vegans when I was vegetarian and I wish they had been more vocal about veganism as I would have made the transition a lot sooner. I try to mention aspects of veganism to omni people I know and I think it has some positive impact.
 

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Well, a big difference is that other movements presently enjoy FAR more social acceptance than ours does. When AR reaches the pinnicle that say, women's rights have achieved, then we can afford to be less tact.
 

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I think it all depends on the delivery and who is receiving the message.<br><br>
My analogy would be thus:<br>
Democrats = veg*ans<br>
Rupublicans = omnis<br>
Independents = people who can be swayed<br><br>
A hardcore vegan is not going to convince a hard core omni no matter what - they are just never going to come to terms. The people we have to win over and open minded (Independents) to whom simple, polite reasoning can win over.<br><br>
**disclaimer - my analogy is not to suggest anyone's political leanings - it is just an example.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Bekka</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3101967"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yes, people should be polite in my opinion. Looking at it from the opposite point of view-if an omnivore tried to stop someone being veg*n by being rude, I doubt many veg*ns would listen!</div>
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Are you saying many veg*ns otherwise would listen? If some omni approached a veg*n to try to convert him/her to abusing animals, I wish the veg*n would sneeze on the omni's hair as a napkin/handkerchief.
 

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You sell more candy apples that are dipped in caramel than those that are dipped dipped in vomit.<br><br>
OK, maybe not the best rewrite of a well-known cliche, but I rewrite animal-based metaphors as a matter of course. That one just popped into my head. The original is incorrect anyway (you WANT to use vinegar in a fly trap), whereas caramel apples really would sell better than barf apples.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dave in MPLS</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102168"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You sell more candy apples that are dipped in caramel than those that are dipped dipped in vomit.</div>
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Only because people have such a bad taste.
 

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When the group I belong to stages protests (starting tomorrow, Ringling Bros comes to town for 5 days <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">), we have lots of really great signs that we've purchased from Peta and In Defense of Animals. Some are graphic. When I'm holding a sign, I don't really feel the need to say anything else. I assume seeing a poster of a skinned carcass speaks much more eloquently about the horror of fur than I ever could. But we do have members of our group who have been vocal on occasion, even though it's our group policy to not engage with hecklers or the business owners we are protesting. It makes me very uncomfortable when the shouting starts. I think it's draws more attention to the messenger than to the message, and gives the audience more reason to dismiss the message.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Poppy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102189"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
When the group I belong to stages protests (starting tomorrow, Ringling Bros comes to town for 5 days <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">), we have lots of really great signs that we've purchased from Peta and In Defense of Animals. Some are graphic. When I'm holding a sign, I don't really feel the need to say anything else. I assume seeing a poster of a skinned carcass speaks much more eloquently about the horror of fur than I ever could. But we do have members of our group who have been vocal on occasion, even though it's our group policy to not engage with hecklers or the business owners we are protesting. It makes me very uncomfortable when the shouting starts. I think it's draws more attention to the messenger than to the message, and gives the audience more reason to dismiss the message.</div>
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I think what you describe sounds like a good approach to advocacy. As long as you wouldn't do something as shockingly immoral and profoundly offensive as express your views during Christmas time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/no.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":no:"> (*shudders at the very thought*)
 

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I know, I know. *hangs head in utter shame* <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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This is a false dichotomy. Being rude or condescending is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable to be silent, to tell people that eating meat is OK, or to tell people that veg*nism is just a personal choice.<br><br>
There are some activists who think that in order to be polite, you have to tell people that you think it OK to pay people to torture animals. They are doing almost as much harm as the activists who are loud and in your face.
 

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I dislike protests. But it's not because I think there's something wrong with being that kind of "offensive." It's because I think that in general the protests are too poorly organized to result in any significant good for animals. Protests <i>must</i> be coupled with other forms of activism in order for them to work.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Eugene</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102459"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This is a false dichotomy. Being rude or condescending is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable to be silent, to tell people that eating meat is OK, or to tell people that veg*nism is just a personal choice.</div>
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Read the entire article she linked to, Eugene. The author did not present the false dichotomy you describe.<br><br><b>Here's how you get things done:<br>
1. What is your goal?<br>
2. Who has the power to make your goal happen?<br>
3. What does that person need to hear/think in order to make your goal happen?<br>
4. Who does that person need to hear the message from?<br>
5. How can you make that happen?</b><br><br>
Different goals require different tactics.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ElaineV</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102472"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I dislike protests. But it's not because I think there's something wrong with being that kind of "offensive." It's because I think that in general the protests are too poorly organized to result in any significant good for animals. <b>Protests <i>must</i> be coupled with other forms of activism in order for them to work.</b><br><br><br>
Read the entire article she linked to, Eugene. The author did not present the false dichotomy you describe.<br><br><b>Here's how you get things done:<br>
1. What is your goal?<br>
2. Who has the power to make your goal happen?<br>
3. What does that person need to hear/think in order to make your goal happen?<br>
4. Who does that person need to hear the message from?<br>
5. How can you make that happen?</b><br><br>
Different goals require different tactics.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/no.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":no:"> I have been protesting pet stores with a group of ARAs in my city for quite some time. Due to our protests, several pet stores have had to shut down. The owners have tried to sue us on multiple occasions for making them lose business.
 

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over the last few years ive noticed that rudeness wrt advocacy is subjective. the same message & its delivery will be taken better by some than others.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Eugene</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102459"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This is a false dichotomy. Being rude or condescending is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable to be silent, to tell people that eating meat is OK, or to tell people that veg*nism is just a personal choice.<br><br>
There are some activists who think that in order to be polite, you have to tell people that you think it OK to pay people to torture animals. They are doing almost as much harm as the activists who are loud and in your face.</div>
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Right. It's important to educate, and to inform ,and part of that is helping people make the connection that their actions do matter, and that most of these atrocities happen because we allow them to by paying other people to commit them.<br><br>
That can be done in the most wonderfully positive and constructive ways that it makes me extremely sad to see so many well meaning vegans screaming at walls and burning out - choosing the battles they're least likely to win. It doesn't have to be that hard, and it's not. Look at the site Eugene runs as just one example. If only 1% of those people actually do what they said and went veg, that's hundreds of thousands of animals spared. Isn't that the bottom line? Significant, lasting change?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Eugene</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102459"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
This is a false dichotomy. Being rude or condescending is unacceptable. It is also unacceptable to be silent, to tell people that eating meat is OK, or to tell people that veg*nism is just a personal choice.<br><br>
There are some activists who think that in order to be polite, you have to tell people that you think it OK to pay people to torture animals. They are doing almost as much harm as the activists who are loud and in your face.</div>
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<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>offthahook</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102673"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
over the last few years ive noticed that rudeness wrt advocacy is subjective. the same message & its delivery will be taken better by some than others.</div>
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+2<br><br>
Some omnis feel offended at the mere realization that you are a veg*n. So be polite by your own standards, not in terms of trying not to offend anyone. I think it's good to be open and straightforward, but also polite.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>cornsail</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3102945"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Some omnis feel offended at the mere realization that you are a veg*n.</div>
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Yeh. I think some vegetarians are offended at the mere realisation too. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 
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