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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hypothetically, lets say someone expounds the argument that hunting for food is a more ethical choice than purchasing factory-farmed products from supermarkets. The person purchases no animal products from stores and all the meat, milk etc. that is consumed is obtained directly from the animal. Basically, the guy doesnt delegate this to other human beings, he believes he is most capable of obtaining the products in the most humane way possible. Instead of financially contributing to the seemingly endless agony endured by factory farmed animals for meat, he can bring about a swifter end to the lives of these animals thereby reducing the extent of their suffering. Instead of paying others to treat cows in sickening ways to get milk, he trusts himself to get the milk in more animal-friendly ways.<br><br>
So, between eating factory-farmed products and hunting yourself, which do you feel is worse? Do you think paying others to kill/abuse animals is just as bad as doing it yourself? Are you equally responsible for the misery of the animal? Please answer the question and no generic harming animals is wrong responses. Obviously, treating animals like resources and as a means to our end is exploitative, which is why I placed phrases like humane and animal-friendly in quotation marks. Both practices are unnecessary and cruel, I am interested in a comparison between the ethics of hunting and factory-farming. I am curious to hear your responses.
 

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Personally I view the meat industry as the greater evil.<br><br>
Disclaimer, prior to going veggie 90% of the meat my family and I ate was from hunting, the other 10% was locally raised and slaughtered.
 

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Some people would consider the act of hunting to be worse, since then you would consciously and actively be taking the life of another animal being, thus proving that one has no qualms at all about eating animals.<br><br>
Other people might think that hunting is better because of the fact that one contribute less to the polluting and global warming of the world, at the same time as one might cause less suffering by not putting animals inside of locked cages their entire life.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Envy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065402"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Some people would consider the act of hunting to be worse, since then you would consciously and actively be taking the life of another human being, thus proving that one has no qualms at all about eating animals.</div>
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Human being?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Forster</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065404"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Human being?</div>
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ops, freudian slip there.
 

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Hunting for survival is something built into our genetics, however our brains have evolved to develop morals and concious decisions which may conflict (vegetarian/veganism). My main problem with meat is the industry. I'm veggie for health reasons primarily, but have more of a problem with shop-bought meat than locally sourced. If factory farms were broken down into smaller, local farms with more regulations on animal welfare, it would be better. And at the same time, farming/hunting only animals that have a naturally high population (rabbits, for example) would be better than eating animals simply being bred for food.<br><br>
TLDR: It's the waste of meat that gets to me most. Factory farming is worst, smaller farms that sell locally (and presumably have fewer animals and better treatment) is better, and hunting your own food is best (if you must eat meat). You're face to face with the animal you're killing, and if you can catch it with something you've made, it's your kill/food.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Electric Leech</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065412"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hunting for survival is something built into our genetics,</div>
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How so?
 

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Hunting ...<br><br>
Tell all the meat eaters that they have to hunt their own food on a Monday and we will have global veganism by Wednesday the same week.<br><br>
Not for any other reason than that I figure it would only take about 2 days before there wasn't a single wild animal left.
 

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sorry but i really dont get the point of these hypothetical questions.<br><br>
are you trying to figure out a way to kill animals that isn't bad or something? or are you trying to persuade someone to hunt or not to hunt?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Electric Leech</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065412"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's the waste of meat that gets to me most. Factory farming is worst, smaller farms that sell locally (and presumably have fewer animals and better treatment) is better, and hunting your own food is best (if you must eat meat). You're face to face with the animal you're killing, and if you can catch it with something you've made, it's your kill/food.</div>
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I can see where it seems more cold-blooded to kill an animal yourself than to buy meat at the store. But then I think of a woman I know who raises chickens, and goats for meat and cheese, and says she would never trust anyone else to give her animals a quick and merciful death (her words). She is more confident in herself than in anyone she'd outsource to, to minimize the stress and trauma her critters go through at the end. I've never been with her at slaughter time and can't attest to her expertise, but I think her scruples are genuine and that she approaches that slaughter with compassion and skill. I do believe her goats and birds have a rather idyllic life while it lasts. Oh, and she totally thinks I'm a wimp and squeamish for not eating meat.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br><br>
Electric Leech, can you elaborate on how factory farming generates more waste than hunting? I thought it was the opposite, though it seems there is a kind of efficiency if the hunted animal has always fed itself on grass instead of being fed grain at a feedlot. But there's waste in hunting too: Way too many deer hunters will take the head (if it's an antlered buck) and the tenderloin, and just leave the rest behind. Then there are the hunters who hit their prey with a wounding shot and never recover it -- leaving it to die from predators or from infection -- or only manage to track it down hours or days later while it's been bleeding, frightened and exhausted the whole time. Bow-hunters in particular have a bad reputation for wounding more deer than they kill. I have more respect for those hunters who will shoot only at close range and only when the animal is standing still and are sure their shot will drop the deer where it stands. But anymore, nearly all hunting is for sport, not for survival. There are people I know and like who hunt, some of them with equipment that was handed down from their grandfathers through their fathers. I personally can't get past the idea of a cruelty, or at least a hard cluelessness, in pursuing a sport that aims for animals to die. To me it's not a sport unless both parties are having fun. I just can't imagine standing there with a bow or a rifle, deciding that it was time for some magnificent wild animal's life to be over.
 

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As far as my personally preferred methods of advocacy for animals go, the most likely people to convince to be vegetarian or eat less meat are probably college aged people who didn't come from a rural background, or who did but never really had a rural mindset. While hunters arguably cause less suffering in the world through hunting, their hearts are also hardened against some types of violence and may be less prone to empathize with animals. If I'm looking at it from the point of view of someone who is trying to increase the presence and potency of the vegetarian meme - which I am - that's the way I have to look at it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Envy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065402"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Other people might think that hunting is better because of the fact that one contribute less to the polluting and global warming of the world, at the same time as one might cause less suffering by not putting animals inside of locked cages their entire life.</div>
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This has generally been my opinion. It's about the quality of their life to me. I still don't think we should have the right to take their life, but if they die either way, if they lived their life freely, it sits better with me.<br>
I hope that doesn't sound like I'm advocating anything, I'm not. Still totally against both.
 

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300 million Americans eating meat choose to hunt for their food instead of supporting modern animal agriculture? What then happens is all wild animal species are wiped out within a few years. So don't let hunters feel good about themselves for being "better" to animals. It's a completely unsustainable practice if their philosophy becomes a reality for everyone. (Thank goodness not everyone follows their lead.) Of course, the answer is to stop eating animals -- or at least to drastically reduce the amount of animal products consumed.
 

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So, I understand the argument, re: hunting for food. Yeah, you know where your food comes, yeah quality of life, yeah circle of life nonsense.<br><br>
But! Hunters are sociopaths. They have no qualms taking the lives of others, and it makes me both sad an nervous to be around someone I know hunts. So there.
 

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I live in a rural, hunting-focused area, and there are a lot of 'back to the earth' types who hunt for food for the same reason as they garden, and keep chickens.<br><br>
I hate the hunting culture that abounds this time of year, and I don't condone it or support it or like it, but these people are at least aware of the choices they are making and the death they are causing.<br><br>
What kind of bothers me is that it isn't a one or the other situation. The hunters also buy cheese and milk and meat from a variety of sources. At the grocery store they might buy 'happy meat' from local ranchers or whatever, but then at restaurants they just buy a burger. They are partially aware, but not enough to limit their consumption of factory-farmed meat.<br><br>
I would feel slightly better about someone who killed <i>all</i> their own meat, because that means they would eat very little meat compared to the SAD, and they would be aware of all of it. But to make excuses for eating factory farmed meat because you <i>also</i> kill animals is... bizarre.<br><br>
So I think they are all *******s. Don't tell them I said that, okay?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Kibbleforlola</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065532"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
So, I understand the argument, re: hunting for food. Yeah, you know where your food comes, yeah quality of life, yeah circle of life nonsense.<br><br>
But! Hunters are sociopaths. They have no qualms taking the lives of others, and it makes me both sad an nervous to be around someone I know hunts. So there.</div>
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I believe the hunting disconnect is similar to the eating packaged meat disconnect. It's still thinking of animals as not 'real' the way humans are real. And they believe it's good and right and natural to eat meat.<br><br>
They're all *******s. :shrug:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luvourmother</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065477"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
sorry but i really dont get the point of these hypothetical questions.<br><br>
are you trying to figure out a way to kill animals that isn't bad or something? or are you trying to persuade someone to hunt or not to hunt?</div>
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I thought I stated in the original post to please answer the question and not provide this type of response. If you read my post again, I already stated clearly that exploiting and killing animals is cruel and unnecessary so I don't really know why you are asking the first question. As for your second question, why would a vegan be trying to persuade someone to hunt? I don't even think you read my question so I kindly request that you read it again and share your thoughts. The reason for my question is because I want to understand where different people draw their boundaries and how they compare the delegation of killing to killing by one's own hand.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>PleasantDream</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065616"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I thought I stated in the original post to please answer the question and not provide this type of response. If you read my post again, I already stated clearly that exploiting and killing animals is cruel and unnecessary so I don't really know why you are asking the first question. As for your second question, why would a vegan be trying to persuade someone to hunt? I don't even think you read my question so I kindly request that you read it again and share your thoughts. The reason for my question is because I want to understand where different people draw their boundaries and how they compare the delegation of killing to killing by one's own hand.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/worried.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":worried:">
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I hope that wasn't perceived as me being rude because that was not my intention. I just prefer that people answer and discuss the question that I posed rather than question my motives for asking.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Joan Kennedy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3065483"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I can see where it seems more cold-blooded to kill an animal yourself than to buy meat at the store. But then I think of a woman I know who raises chickens, and goats for meat and cheese, and says she would never trust anyone else to give her animals a quick and merciful death (her words). She is more confident in herself than in anyone she'd outsource to, to minimize the stress and trauma her critters go through at the end. I've never been with her at slaughter time and can't attest to her expertise, but I think her scruples are genuine and that she approaches that slaughter with compassion and skill. I do believe her goats and birds have a rather idyllic life while it lasts. Oh, and she totally thinks I'm a wimp and squeamish for not eating meat.</div>
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You should ask your friend if this approach would be okay for humans to impose upon other humans. Is it okay to kill another human without necessity if you've determined that they have lived a good life? What if you feel that you're doing the planet an ecological favor? Can I compassionately slaughter another human against his or her will for no other reason than pleasure?
 
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