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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been a vegetarian for awhile and proud to be one. The hardest part i find is when i get together with friends and they are having Chicken fingers or whatever and they offer me one. I say no i am a vegetarian. They ask why and i reply with the simple answer, i don't beleive in killing animals just to eat them. And then they give me this smart remark back "they are all ready dead so if you don't eat them you are just going to put them to waste..so what would you perfer?!" I don't know how to reply to it. If anyone knows how to answer that would be great.<br><br>
Faith<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
sometimes i say that it's just plain gross..<br><br>
what with all the flesh and veins and feces in meat.<br><br><br><br>
sometimes i explain the simple concept of supply and demand.<br><br>
if i don't eat it less chickens die. and less death is always a good thing no matter how you look at it.<br><br><br><br>
but it seems no matter what the response.. in my experience if you answer one question.. you get 3 more in its place. i don't recall where EXACTLY but i remember somewhere on the peta website they have a whole section dedicated to this very subject.
 

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First you should start training to be able to give people the following look instantly:<br><br><br><br>
"are you REALLY that dumb ?"
 

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I like 1vegan's response! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> But seriously, confidence is the key... there are some people I just won't debate with and my response is "you can think that if you want to" (or similar) in a quite amused voice... maybe arrogant but some people are not ready to learn and there's no point wasting time/breath on them.
 

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1vegan's response will come naturally with time. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
I go into supply and demand and note that the drastic reduction in the number of people clamoring for red meat has led to a reduction of beef production, while the migration to poultry has increased its production. If they can't understand basic supply and demand economics, they deserve every dollar the government steals from them.
 

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Tell them, that the chicken weren´t killed for you and that you prefere not being a complice to the act.<br><br>
I had a hard time about ten years ago at Christmas, when I refused not only to eat duck but also didn´t want to cut the bird. "You don´t have to eat it, just cut it." I didn´t, because I wanted to stop being a complice in murder. Afterwards they (family / relatives) didn´t ask me again.
 

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I'll second what epski said... I would point out that "it's already dead because people like you choose to consume it, thereby making a market for suffering."
 

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I have been saying that I disagree with how animals are treated on factory farms. That really doesn't cover it, though. I know all the facts, but tend to get all flustered with my family. I don't want to get preachy or judgemental with them, and I also don't want them to roll their eyes at me, but I do want to get my point across in language they can understand. I'm still trying to work that out in my head.
 

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If it disgusts you like it does me & apparently FalafelLuv, then I definitely love to point out that I find it gross, the veins, the idea of putting a hunk of dead animal in my mouth, ugh.<br><br><br><br>
I think the omni's that ask these questions really get off on thinking that veg*n's feel really deprived, and are salivating at the thought of what they're eating. Somehow that makes them feel better on a subconcious level (ie: they wouldn't admit to it). The only thing we lack is common availabilty of our foods. Just about everything can be made delicious and cruelty free. It's a pain in the ass to find, it's usually more expensive.. but it exists thankfully. These people don't want to hear all your good arguements though, they just want to laugh at your expense. Everyone likes to point out the "odd duck".
 

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for me, it's rather simple.<br><br><br><br>
I simply tell people that if fewer people ate meat, fewer animals would be killed. The process of meat production is one of supply and demand. I do not demand it, therefore supply is not wasted on me. If meat eaters procure meat and then do not eat it, then there is waste. If one chooses not to eat meat at all, and never seeks to purchase it or consume it, there is not waste because there was no demand to supply.<br><br><br><br>
The idea being that eventually, no one (or very few people) would eat meat, thereby doing away with the industry altogether.<br><br><br><br>
Basicly, if they decide not to eat it once it is purchased, prepared, etc, then they are wasting. By choosing to forgo all meat, you are not wasting, because you are not in the demand/supply equation.<br><br><br><br>
Does that help?
 

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The supply and demand point can also be extended to include less stress on the environment. Not eating meat leads to lower demand which also leads to decreased amounts of animal waste generated on factory farms. In my experience, some people have been more receptive to this than to the cruelty point of view.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
They are only dead because of the supply and demand system! If they weren't in demand by the commercial system, the practice of factory raising and slaughtering would cease!
 

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There are a lot of great answers here. I really like 1vegan's answer-with-a-loaded-glance strategy!<br><br><br><br>
I usually just say, lightly, "Because I can live without it." Then I sit back and watch them think about <i>why</i> I might want to live without it.
 

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I think there is a kind of interpersonal dynamic in these sorts of conversations that runs deeper than the actual questions being asked.<br><br><br><br>
I think veg*ns make some omnis uncomfortable because of a kind of moral defensiveness. Even before the veg*n says anything about their reasons, some omnis will presume the veg*n feels morally superior for not eating meat, which puts them on the defensive. I feel that this is what, on a psychological level, prompts the various debates, interrogations, jokes, and attempts to get the veg*n to "give in to temptation".<br><br><br><br>
In this case, the surface level is this argument about the animal being already dead. But the sub-surface message is probably something more like "you think you are morally superior, but if I prove that you're not being logical, then your superiority goes away and I don't have to worry about it."<br><br><br><br>
That's not always the case, of course. Some omnis are sincerely curious about your reasons, without the defensiveness. But if the defensiveness is there, it's good to diffuse it, in addition to (or even instead of) making the argument:<br><br><br><br>
"It's a choice I've made that makes sense for me."<br><br><br><br>
"I understand what you are saying, but I'm just not interested in eating it."<br><br><br><br>
"That's a good point, but it keeps things clearer for me if I just don't eat meat at all."<br><br><br><br>
You can also diffuse the defensiveness with your attitude (not getting defensive yourself, and listening respectfully). I don't think it's helpful (although very tempting) to come across as though the person is stupid for not understanding supply and demand. You're already perceived as snobbish because of a perceived moral superiority - adding intellectual superiority to list just reinforces the image.<br><br><br><br>
Another useful approach to diffusing these issues more permanently is to say, when the conversation has wound down, "I'm happy to talk about my vegetarianism, but let's not try to persuade each other to change what we eat. I don't need to prove to you I'm right. Please respect my right to choose for myself what I eat, though."<br><br><br><br>
Blessings, Tom
 

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I agree with Suesemon! I have learned in my 14 years as a vegetarian that what Suesomon has described as true, Omni's think that we (veg*n's) are attacking them morally or being critical of thier cooking. Not only that, Omni's have come to EXPECT you to come out with some animal rights propaganda and they prepare themselves to get defensive. You are better to shut them down and eat your Veggie Dog in peace. Plus on a more base level, homogenous = happiness for most people, if you are different therefore you are "bad" or corrupt. I use lines like...<br><br><br><br>
"I have made a lifestyle choice that is good for my body and the environment." (If I feel like pulling out politics, I will use this one)<br><br><br><br>
I don't care for the taste of meat, so I don't eat it. ( This shuts people down real fast, it's completly unexpected because everyone likes hamburger right? I only use this for people who are itching to argue about WHY you need to eat chicken)<br><br><br><br>
You seem really interested in what I eat, would you like a bite of my veggie dog? (Boca Burger? Tofu?)<br><br><br><br>
I feel good about not eating meat, it's lifestyle that suits my health and upholds my morals.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Seusomon</i><br><br><b>I think there is a kind of interpersonal dynamic in these sorts of conversations that runs deeper than the actual questions being asked.<br><br><br><br>
I think veg*ns make some omnis uncomfortable because of a kind of moral defensiveness. Even before the veg*n says anything about their reasons, some omnis will presume the veg*n feels morally superior for not eating meat, which puts them on the defensive. I feel that this is what, on a psychological level, prompts the various debates, interrogations, jokes, and attempts to get the veg*n to "give in to temptation".<br><br><br><br>
In this case, the surface level is this argument about the animal being already dead. But the sub-surface message is probably something more like "you think you are morally superior, but if I prove that you're not being logical, then your superiority goes away and I don't have to worry about it."<br><br><br><br>
That's not always the case, of course. Some omnis are sincerely curious about your reasons, without the defensiveness. But if the defensiveness is there, it's good to diffuse it, in addition to (or even instead of) making the argument:<br><br><br><br>
"It's a choice I've made that makes sense for me."<br><br><br><br>
"I understand what you are saying, but I'm just not interested in eating it."<br><br><br><br>
"That's a good point, but it keeps things clearer for me if I just don't eat meat at all."<br><br><br><br>
You can also diffuse the defensiveness with your attitude (not getting defensive yourself, and listening respectfully). I don't think it's helpful (although very tempting) to come across as though the person is stupid for not understanding supply and demand. You're already perceived as snobbish because of a perceived moral superiority - adding intellectual superiority to list just reinforces the image.<br><br><br><br>
Another useful approach to diffusing these issues more permanently is to say, when the conversation has wound down, "I'm happy to talk about my vegetarianism, but let's not try to persuade each other to change what we eat. I don't need to prove to you I'm right. Please respect my right to choose for myself what I eat, though."<br><br><br><br>
Blessings, Tom</b></div>
</div>
<br>
 

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When I do have to say something, I usually say it has to do with religion(it does and then some..) and they usually don't push it. But sometimes they'll ask what religion and I tell them the truth mostly that I'm Buddhist, but sometimes I mess with them and give a different religious answer ot each person. It's wicked <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">, but hey it's what I do for kicks.
 

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I find it interesting that so many people come up with snide remarks. I usually just tell people that I feel healthier (might add that I used to be really overweight depending on the person) and that's the end of it. I have had someone say, "well it's already dead so you might as well eat it." I just say, "no thanks" and might add that meat makes me feel really ill (which it does, and it took me YEARS before I went vege to figure that out!!). End of story.<br><br><br><br>
I have only had one person (my annoying cousin) shove meat in my face. The rest of the time, people either end it there (the ol' "oh" and a shrug response) or they ask me more about it. But it's sincere. If I come off as a snot, that's not doing anyone a favor, is it? I don't think I'm "lucky" that I don't have people badger me about it. I think it's all in how I respond. I make it a very personal issue (the "it's what's right for me" approach) and that way the person can't get offended. They usually don't.<br><br><br><br>
I can see how so many veggies, if they use responses like the ones above, are so frequently confronted...<br><br><br><br>
amy
 

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Tell them that TVP has 2 1/2 times the amount of protien as meat. Let them put that in their pipe an smoke it.<br><br><br><br>
(TVP= Textured Vegetable Protein. What Veggie Burgers and fake sausages are made out of for anyone who doesn't know.)
 
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