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Discussion Starter #1
I don't know much about her. Why do you like or dislike her? Most of what I hear from people, blogs and political radio is negative so I'm not sure why she would consider running.<br><br><br><br>
eta: most of the negative stuff I hear isn't really correlated with anything. People don't trust her. Is it because of her affiliation with wal-mart? It certainly raises questions for me. I need to do a bit of research about her involvement there. OTOH I like her position re: abortion, illegal immigration and maybe even the war but I've been reading conflicting reports so I don't know what to think. Is it necessarily bad to play both sides of the fence? Should canidates always side with their parties views?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I found this in wikipedia but eh, i don't know<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton_controversies" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary..._controversies</a>
 

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She's a centrist and a political opportunist...basically not any better or worse than your average politician. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
...<br><br>
I think she's garnered undue attention because she's a strong woman.<br><br><br><br>
ebola
 

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Yes, I would absolutely support her for President. I agree with her on a lot of issues, but she'd really be getting my vote simple because I don't want to see another white male president.<br><br><br><br>
However to be honest, I think a black man stands a better chance becoming president than a white woman in today's climate, so the person I'd most like to see get the nomination is Collin Powell. Collin Powell on the republican ticket and Barrack Obama on the democratic ticket and you have a win-win situation. Of course I agree much more with Obama, however I think Powell has the greater shot of winning in a post-war election so I'd back him. If he'd run.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>gaya</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Should canidates always side with their parties views?</div>
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No. I think we'd be better off if there were no political parties and every candidate ran as an independent.
 

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She is an uber-politician who learned a lot from her husband's many campaigns and his presidency. She is very smart, very effective, and not someone I trust to speak for me in the least.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Well, this is the kind of stuff I've been hearing but again, it really doesn't address anything specific like voting trends or her resume etc. I'm interested in learning about "why" she is not trust worthy...reasons that go beyond speculation.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>kpickell</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
she'd really be getting my vote simple because I don't want to see another white male president.</div>
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congratulations, you're sexist.<br><br><br><br>
I ran this name up the flagpole after the 2004 election results and people here seemed to like it: Stephanie Herseth<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Herseth" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephanie_Herseth</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>otomik</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
congratulations, you're sexist.<br></div>
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<br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/inquisitive.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":stinkeye:"> Come on.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>bstutzma</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/inquisitive.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":stinkeye:"> Come on.</div>
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let me translate and help you see it better<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">she'd really be getting my vote simple because I don't want to see another homosexual president.</div>
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<br>
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, he did say that he would prefer two men over Hillary so I don't know if it's a gender issue for him.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>otomik</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
let me translate and help you see it better</div>
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You translated it from a non-marginalized group to a marginalized one. "X would really be getting my vote simple because I don't want to see another heterosexual president" sounds okay to me.<br><br><br><br>
Also, the issue is obviously not that a president being a white male makes him unable to make good decisions (which would be sexist), it has to do with how different groups in society are represented in government.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You translated it from a non-marginalized group to a marginalized one. "X would really be getting my vote simple because I don't want to see another heterosexual president" sounds okay to me.</div>
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sounds okay because you're used to ends justify the means arguments, but in reality it's the same crap. we have to live with the means and the means are the same as the problem in this case. There is no bad racism and good racism, no reverse racism, all the same crap.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Also, the issue is obviously not that a president being a white male makes him unable to make good decisions (which would be sexist), it has to do with how different groups in society are represented in government.</div>
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nonsense, kpickell was unwilling to consider a white males ability to make good decisions. your concentration on using quotas in government is also bigoted because you're saying that all <i>x</i> people think alike.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sarah Silverman loves chinks</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
She tells how she got selected for jury duty, which was a pain - she didn't want to do it. 'So I'm filling out the form. And my friend said, "Why don't you just write something really inappropriate, like I hate Chinks?" And I said, "Yeah, that's a good idea." But I don't want people to think that of me, you know? I just wanna get out of jury duty. So I just filled out the form, and I wrote, "I love Chinks." And who doesn't?'</div>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>otomik</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
sounds okay because you're used to ends justify the means arguments, but in reality it's the same crap.</div>
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I don't think it's an "ends justify the means" argument.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">nonsense, kpickell was unwilling to consider a white males ability to make good decisions.</div>
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I don't see anything implying that to be true.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">your concentration on using quotas in government is also bigoted because you're saying that all <i>x</i> people think alike.</div>
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It doesn't have much to do with how different groups think. It does have something to do with the fact that the current selection of representatives is racist and (hetero)sexist.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>gaya</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, this is the kind of stuff I've been hearing but again, it really doesn't address anything specific like voting trends or her resume etc. I'm interested in learning about "why" she is not trust worthy...reasons that go beyond speculation.</div>
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There are hundreds of blogs and plenty of opinion pieces and articles one can go out and read for free on the web to draw your own opinion (I have neither the time, nor the patience, nor do I know you well enough to expend the energy to go find specific examples or to condense everything I've read down into a handy little post), but it's clear from all <i>I've</i> read in the past several years that everything about her political career is calculated and triangulated to gain broad approval for the largest democratic base possible. I'm not a fan of politicians like that, nor do I trust them.<br><br><br><br>
I want to know who I'm really voting for, not some packaged commodity that looks like it came out of the old studio contract system, where movie studios renamed their stars, groomed them, and sold them exactly how they wanted. To me, it feels like Hillary is being "made" into a star candidate, which could be bad for democrats and the country. Just because the "kingmakers" are pushing her on America doesn't mean America is going to accept her.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
everything about her political career is calculated and triangulated to gain broad approval for the largest democratic base possible.</div>
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Isn't that true of nearly all elected officials? Otherwise, how will they win any campaign?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Kucinich for prez imo.</div>
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If only...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There are hundreds of blogs and plenty of opinion pieces and articles one can go out and read for free on the web to draw your own opinion (I have neither the time, nor the patience, nor do I know you well enough to expend the energy to go find specific examples or to condense everything I've read down into a handy little post), but it's clear from all <i>I've</i> read in the past several years that everything about her political career is calculated and triangulated to gain broad approval for the largest democratic base possible. I'm not a fan of politicians like that, nor do I trust them.</div>
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I have read several blog and editorial pieces but that type of information isn't really my cup of tea. I'm also not necessarily doubting her career is calculated for approval but at the same time I can't really form an opinion with out actual information. I just thought someone here might be able to direct me.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">I want to know who I'm really voting for, not some packaged commodity that looks like it came out of the old studio contract system, where movie studios renamed their stars, groomed them, and sold them exactly how they wanted. To me, it feels like Hillary is being "made" into a star candidate, which could be bad for democrats and the country. Just because the "kingmakers" are pushing her on America doesn't mean America is going to accept her.</div>
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I agree. We should know who we are really voting for tho i suspect a number of people don't actually make up their own minds but rather take on the opinions and interpretations of others. I'm thinking of my father right now who parrots R. Limbaugh (sp?) perfectly. It is very time consuming to learn the in's and out's of what ever candidate, which is why I tend to pick a few core issues and then go from there...tho i've been chastised for this approach. I also like to include corp financial support in my researching which is also very time consuming.<br><br><br><br>
Either way, when people say 'I like this person' or 'I dislike that person', I always ask why and oddly, I rarely get an answer to this question. I ask myself these same questions and I don't always have an answer either.
 

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A lot of my concern arises from the general perception that she's moved from further left of the center to being as centrist as her team can help her go. I'm also against some of her stances (on the war, free speech issues, same sex marriages, and so on), but that's just my opinion. The best thing I can say about Hillary is that she seems genuinely interested in reaching across party lines, which we haven't seen in some time.<br><br><br><br>
Polls show that she'd probably win the nomination but get beaten solidly in the presidential elections. I took another look at polls indicating that if the election were held today she'd lose against Rudy Giuliani, of all people, much less John McCain. Then again, polls change. She's the best-known democratic candidate right now, and has a lot of baggage that puts her in a handicapped spot from the get-go.<br><br><br><br>
I'd rather see her as the Senate minority leader in 2009. If she wants to look at running in 2012, we see what things look like four years from now.<br><br><br><br>
For more non-blog/editorial reading, I guess you can visit sites dedicated to her career:<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.hillaryclinton.com/" target="_blank">HillaryClinton.com</a><br><br><a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/firstladies/hc42.html" target="_blank">White House bio</a><br><br><a href="http://www.votehillary.org/CMS/%3Cbr%20/%3E%3Cbr%20/%3E" target="_blank">VoteHillary.org</a><br><br><a href="http://clinton.senate.gov/" target="_blank">Senator Clinton's home page</a><br><br><br><br>
But those are probably not going to do much for you.<br><br><br><br>
Wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodham_Clinton" target="_blank">has an entry</a> that provides an overview of her last few years in the Senate.<br><br><br><br>
I could go on all day and probably dig up all kinds of pros and cons and so forth, but it sounds like that's something you need to do for yourself to really come to your own opinion. So, I'm off to get my own work done!
 
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