hidden resource robbers at startup

soilman · Mar 28, 2003

ctrl-alt del doesn't show these 2 programs, nor does Lavasoft ad-aware find them, but zone alarm flags one of them calling home with regularity -- Real makes huge numbers of attempts to call home. And jv16 power tool shows them, as being loaded at startup -- thus hogging resources I think. Of course neither Real nor QuickTime seems to eve tell you about these programs Here is what jv16 says gets loaded at startup, without being shown when you press ctrl-alt del: 
Program : QuickTime Task 
Filename : "c:\\windows\\system\\qttask.exe" -atboottime 
Description : N/A 
Loaded From : HKEY_LM\\Run 
Program : TkBellExe 
Filename : C:\\program Files\\common Files\ 
eal\\update_ob\\evntsvc.exe -osboot 
Description : N/A 
Loaded From : HKEY_LM\\Run 
There are other programs at startup not shown by ctrl-alt del, but they are part of the windows operating system, and I am aware of what they do. For example there is a little program to detect if I plug my scanner in. Another to add extra features to my trackball. And something called Task Monitor (c:\\windows\\taskmon.exe) -- it came with the orig windows 98se installation. 
Should I just try removing the quicktime and real audio-video programs from loading at startup by removing the registry instructions that load them? I suspect that it will simply result in Real not popping up, out of nowhere, and telling me an update is available, like I have seen it do.

Thalia · Mar 28, 2003

I never let that realplayer update through my firewall, it doesn't harm anything, and it also prevents those things from popping up that say you have new messages waiting for you. 
But you have given me the idea that I should look through what I have running on startup. It would be easier to just not have that thing running and trying to access the internet in the first damn place. 
On windows 98se, I found one or two strange ms processes that tried to access the internet, and after a little research, I found out it was OK to just delete them. I wish I remember what they were called, but they drove me nuts.

soilman · Mar 28, 2003

Right, Thalia, i've got zone alarm set not to let the realplayer thing call home, but it persists in trying, making like 9 calls in a fraction of a second, waiting a few seconds, and then making another series of 12 identical attempts. 
Should I just erase the registration instruction that loads the program at startup? Will real player still work? 
And does anyone know what taskmon.exe does? I tried executing it but didn't observe anything happen. Maybe I should try removing it and see what, if anything, goes wrong. Task scheduler seems to work using another program. You know what, could taskmon.exe be what is responsible for keeping the taskbar having the right program names on its "buttons." ??? Sound plausible but I have no idea.

soilman · Mar 28, 2003

By the way, if you want to be amazed at what goes on with windows while you think it is doing nothing, exit all your application programs, get Registry Monitor from <a href="http://www.sysinternals.com/" target="_blank">http://www.sysinternals.com/</a> , and observe all the sentences of conversation, with the registry, that things residing in memory since being put there at startup, are making. Windows Explorer does not have an open window, but every second or 2 so it goes thru 3 lines of conversation with the reg. The printer window queries to see if my printer has decided to need its little window that pops up when its printing; I think I am going to have to reinstall my printer driver -- without that handy window -- every 1/2 a second it goes thru 10 lines or so. It is still doing that even after I just unplugged the printer. QyeryValueEx; not found. Over and over and over again, exactly the same. 
Oh oh. Every 10 minutes or so realnetworks pops a bunch of questions to the registry. OpenKey; queryValue; CloseKey. At least it is having "success" instead of hearing "not found."

Joe · Mar 29, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by soilman 
... 
Should I just try removing the quicktime and real audio-video programs from loading at startup by removing the registry instructions that load them? I suspect that it will simply result in Real not popping up, out of nowhere, and telling me an update is available, like I have seen it do.</div>
</div>
 
I think it would be better to just disable (un-check) them using the MSConfig utility. [There are other, similar utilities--like StartUpCop--that do pretty much the same thing.] 
See: <a href="http://netsquirrel.com/msconfig/" target="_blank">http://netsquirrel.com/msconfig/</a> 
Only if this does not work should you mess with your registry keys, etc. [That's my opinion. I could be wrong.] 
According to this article (above), TaskMon must always be left running. <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block"> 
taskmon - taskmon.exe - Process Information 
Process File: taskmon or taskmon.exe 
Process Name: Windows Task Optimizer 
Description: The Windows Task Optimizer monitors how often you use a program and is used by defrag to optimize the harddisk for loading commonly used programs 
Common Errors: N/A 
System Process: Yes</div>
</div>
 <a href="http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/taskmon/" target="_blank">http://www.liutilities.com/products/...brary/taskmon/</a> 
P.S. This discussion seems like deja vu. I think we discussed this same or a very similar issue maybe a year ago or so.

soilman · Mar 29, 2003

Ah. Thanks Joe. It hadn't occurred to me that I could us MSconfig to remove Real update and quicktime task. But indeed they are shown in the Start tab, next to checkboxes that can be unchecked.

Kurmudgeon · Mar 29, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by soilman Windows Explorer does not have an open window, but every second or 2 so it goes thru 3 lines of conversation with the reg.</div>
</div>
 
When you can see your Desktop and Taskbar, that is Windows Explorer.

Michael · Mar 29, 2003

You could just not use RealPlayer. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

">

soilman · Mar 29, 2003

Kurmudg writes: 
=========== 
When you can see your Desktop and Taskbar, that is Windows Explorer. 
========= 
Ah, no wonder they both disappear when I get an exception and after doing ctrl-alt del, Windows Explorer, wihich is identified as being disfunctional, and is highlighted, I click the End Task button.

soilman · Mar 29, 2003

M writes: "You could just not use RealPlayer." 
I would generally prefer not to, but I hesititate to remove it because occaisionally I come across info that I can get no other way. 
Incidentally i unchecked it as Joe suggested and -- i'll see what happens. Nothing bad so far.

Joe · Mar 29, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by soilman M writes: "You could just not use RealPlayer." 
I would generally prefer not to, but I hesititate to remove it because occaisionally I come across info that I can get no other way. 
Incidentally i unchecked it as Joe suggested and -- i'll see what happens. Nothing bad so far.</div>
</div>
 
I think the only problem you may encounter is that every time you use RealPlayer, it will put itself back in your start-up configuration. So you will have to go back and "un-check" it in MSConfig, possibly over and over again. It does not "like" being deactivated.

soilman · Mar 29, 2003

Joe writes: 
=============== 
I think the only problem you may encounter is that every time you use RealPlayer, it will put itself back in your start-up configuration. So you will have to go back and "un-check" it in MSConfig, possibly over and over again. It does not "like" being deactivated. 
================== 
Mother ****er.

Kurmudgeon · Mar 30, 2003

Speaking of resource robbers..... 
I'm running a fresh installation of Windows 2000 Professional (since my trouble with Norton System Works 2003). I had my internet connection going, with Zone Alarm 2.6 (I have that version on my hard drive; later versions are on CD somewhere). 
Anyway, everything was going fine, then I installed Microsoft SQL Server 2000.... now the SQL Server service manager process makes Zone Alarm's vsmon.exe process rob all my memory and CPU time! 
What a pain in the ass..... I can only have one loaded at a time (and the SQL service can't be ended manually).

soilman · Mar 30, 2003

I've been complaining for awhile, Kurmudgeon, that zone alarm uses too many resources (drops them 11 percentage points). Whilst hearing from others that it seems to use very little. Now I wonder if there is some other program i gave loaded at the same time that causes ZoneAlarm to use more resources than it normally would? This is at startup tho, and I've eliminated lots of programs that I formerly had at startup.

Thalia · Mar 30, 2003

Soilman- what OS are you using? I noticed that once I switched from 98SE to a clean win2000 install, my memory problems and errors are long gone. I also discovered that if you have norton let it start before all other programs, that it reduced memory problems that I seemed to get from using both norton av and zone alarm.

soilman · Mar 31, 2003

I'm using 98se Thalia. I'm concerned that if i get Windows 2000 I won't be able to use my older Lotus 1-2-3 release 3 for DOS, or WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS. Even tho i can read many of the files with excel and Word, I'm concerned some of the features or fomatting won't work in Excel or Word. Plus I know how to write Lotus macros, and learned it quickly; I'm having trouble learning how to use Visual Basic to write excel macros. Lotus' included tutorial was easier to understand. Visual Basic makes me want to go back to my Atari 800. 
Plus I still haven't transferred all the programs i was using in windows 95 on my other computer, to the windows 98 computer. With dos, you didn't have to reload every program from its installation disk when you upgraded dos -- you just copied them to the new computer file for file. (No "registry"was involved). And when you decided to get rid of them -- you just erased their files -- you didn't have to do an (usually incomplete) "unistall" procedure. Plus you could put all their files under one directory with its subdirectories; your installation didn't involve putting files in a "Windows" directory, and subdirectories of that -- often overwriting identically named files that were installed by an entirely unrelated program!! What kind of nonsense is that? I hate Windows. The work it is supposed to "save" by being a "graphic interface" ends up not panning out -- you continually have to do more work to propping up this monstrosity to keep it from sinking.

Joe · Mar 31, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by Thalia I noticed that once I switched from 98SE to a clean win2000 install, my memory problems and errors are long gone. I also discovered that if you have norton let it start before all other programs, that it reduced memory problems ... .</div>
</div>
 
I'm running WinME, which is basically very similar to Win98. 
How do you determine or change the starting order of the programs? I have no idea how to do that. DUH! Norton AV 2003 starts near the end of the order, and sometimes does not even start properly at all. When that happens, the programs that are supposed to start after it, do not start at all.

soilman · Mar 31, 2003

I don't have any Norton Utilities programs running at Startup. I tried temporarily removing everything that wasn't absolutely nec, acc to Joes instruction above regarding msconfig -- and Zone Alarm still causes an 11 percent resource drop. 
I think maybe I shoul get a Pentium 4 before I use Windows 2000. I have a pentium 2 now that YKill clocks at 349Mhz.

soilman · Mar 31, 2003

Joe asks: "How do you determine or change the starting order of the programs? " 
The programs at startup? I don't think you can, from Windows 98se. However you can, when you are writing the program, putting instructions into the program itself to delay it from starting immediately, thus giving the other programs a chance to load first. Other than that, from what I understand, it all goes by chance. If you want to program to load last, perhaps you can not have it load at startup, and then load it manually using a shortcut file, after the computer starts. But that probably isn't much help; you obviously must have already known that.

Kurmudgeon · Mar 31, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by Joe How do you determine or change the starting order of the programs?</div>
</div>
 
I think you can do this for the programs in the Startup folder by renaming them. So to have Nortons load last (if it is there), rename it by adding something like "zzz" to it. 
If it's loaded by the registry (HKEY Local Machine/Software/Microsoft/Windows/Current Version/Run) it'll load before any of the Startup folder programs (Startup is processed last). In that case you might be able to transfer it from the registry to the Startup folder (copy the value of the registry key of Nortons in the registry and create a new shortcut in the Startup folder, using the copied value as the item in the Shorcut wizard... then delete the registry key).

hidden resource robbers at startup

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