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My wife has been reading a book, the claims in which we (both vegetarian) found very interesting.<br><br><br><br>
Heart disease should be blamed not on animal fats or cholesterol but upon excess consumption of vegetable oils, hydrogenated fats, and refined carbohydrates (p 134)<br><br><br><br>
This is from <i>The Maker's Diet</i> by Jordan S. Rubin who referenced Diet and Heat DiseaseNot What You Think, Consumers Research July 1996 pp. 15-19. Now, I could have sworn, except for the hydrogenated fats it was the other way around. And I realize that refined carbs are no good, but they cause heart disease? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thinking.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":think:"><br><br><br><br>
Here's more.<br><br><br><br>
"At least 50% of dietary fat we consume should be saturated, otherwise calcium cannot be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure." (p 133)<br><br><br><br>
"Saturated fats enhance the immune system." (p 133)<br><br><br><br>
These quotes from the same book are referenced to Sally Fallon with Mary G. Enig Ph.D in <i>Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook That Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats</i> 2nd edition<br><br><br><br>
And...<br><br><br><br>
Fiber found in grain is a <i>carbohydrate</i>. The overconsumption of high-carbohydrate grain-based foods such as bran, fibrous breakfast cereals, whole-wheat bread (nonsprouted or fermented), and soy, which all contain high amounts of phytates, is a primary cause of intestinal disease and other diseases! (p 141) no reference.<br><br><br><br>
So much of this sounds funny to us. What do you think about these claims? Has anyone ever heard of Fallon or Enig? Are these claims based on truth or are they twisted, misinformed BS?
 

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It seems to me that the connection between sat fat, cholesterol, and cardiovascular disease has been so well established by numerous studies that it's common knowledge at this point.<br><br><br><br>
Sadly, one of the things I learned from The China Study is how easy it is for people with an agenda to create the illusion of solid science backing up their position when in fact it is nothing but junk science or twisted and misleading interpretations of real science. Unfortunately, there is so much of this floating around in today's atmosphere it is becoming increasingly difficult for laypersons to evaluate scientific claims for themselves.<br><br><br><br>
PS: Here is one tidbit I found through a quick Google search on one of the sources you mentioned above:<br><br>
<a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Consumers'_Research" target="_blank">http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Consumers'_Research</a>
 

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I feel like I've just stumbled into opposite land. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/dunce.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":dunce:"><br><br><br><br>
As far as I can tell the only thing that's right about those statements is that hydrogenated oils are bad.
 

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Seems off to me. Wild meat or grassfed meat has much less saturated fat than factory meat, this is how meateaters used to be able to get away with eating it in the past. The meat people eat nowadays is not similar to the meat of the past, so you can't compare eating meat now to eating meat in the past. The bit suggesing fiber is bad for you, or that fiber is a carbohydrate, is just plain wrong. Fiber is not a carbohydrate unless you're a ruminant. Sorry, but humans aren't ruminants. That book is way way off, in my opinion.
 

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Rubin is a NMD, CNC so I tend not to pay attention to people with those titles, especially CNC. These people should realize that it's a red flag. Enig is correct about trans fats and is certainly qualified but I tried to run a search with her name and phytates site:.edu and didn't come up with anything. Seems like it would be a big deal. Sure we know that phytates inhibit minerals but that's nothing a little food combining (or non-combining) couldn't take care. I've never heard of the correlation between phytates and intestinal disease. Interesting.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Ludi</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Are they talking about celiac disease? Isn't that caused by phytates in wheat?</div>
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From what i understand celiac is a genetic disorder or at least has a genetic component. I don't think it's <i>caused</i> by an environmental source tho obviously affected by environmental sources. From what I've read, it tends to run in families.<br><br><br><br>
eta: what I mean to say, is that just because someone has an allergy to a certain food does not mean that the allergy or the cause of the allergy can be generalized to the popullation. Plenty of people are allergic to peanuts for example, but that doesn't mean peanuts aren't good for us. I shouldn't try to communicate before having coffee. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
this is an interesting wiki comment<br><br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid</a>
 

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I've never really understood why people freak out at saturated fats when our bodies contain desataturases that take them apart.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Gita</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've never really understood why people freak out at saturated fats when our bodies contain desataturases that take them apart.</div>
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I don't think our body can convert any fat to essential fats. I also think desaturases are specific but i could be wrong about that.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>meatless</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
As far as I can tell the only thing that's right about those statements is that hydrogenated oils are bad.</div>
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Theres one other true statement therethat fiber is a carbohydrate. Cellulose is a polysaccharide. The rest is pure unmitigated nonsense.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>gaya</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Rubin is a NMD, CNC so I tend not to pay attention to people with those titles, especially CNC.</div>
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What do those stand for?
 

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there are a great number of studies out there that suggest that the origins or major players in heart disease are:<br><br><br><br>
high fructose corn syrup<br><br>
processed sugar<br><br>
processed flours (as opposed to sprouted grain)<br><br>
racid vegetable oils (non cold-pressed)<br><br>
hydrogenated oils<br><br>
trans-fats<br><br><br><br>
Generally speaking, vegetable oils (cold pressed), and fat from animals do not contain these elements (rancidity, hydrogenation, or trans-fats). just do a simple web search for nutritional information regarding it.<br><br><br><br>
also, the book you have may have end notes or foot notes, look up the articles themselves and read them to see what they say.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tesseract</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It seems to me that the connection between sat fat, cholesterol, and cardiovascular disease has been so well established by numerous studies that it's common knowledge at this point.<br><br><br><br>
Sadly, one of the things I learned from The China Study is how easy it is for people with an agenda to create the illusion of solid science backing up their position when in fact it is nothing but junk science or twisted and misleading interpretations of real science.</div>
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Tess,<br><br><br><br>
Are you saying that TCS is based on pseudo-science? Or am I just reading that sentence incorrectly (always highly possible <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> )?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Washoe</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Theres one other true statement therethat fiber is a carbohydrate. Cellulose is a polysaccharide. The rest is pure unmitigated nonsense.</div>
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Yeah but humans can't digest it, so , not relevant to their argument....<br><br><br><br>
"The major component in the rigid cell walls in plants is cellulose. Cellulose is a linear polysaccharide polymer with many glucose monosaccharide units. The acetal linkage is beta which makes it different from starch. This peculiar difference in acetal linkages results in a major difference in digestibility in humans. Humans are unable to digest cellulose because the appropriate enzymes to breakdown the beta acetal linkages are lacking. (More on enzyme digestion in a later chapter.) Undigestible cellulose is the fiber which aids in the smooth working of the intestinal tract.<br><br><br><br>
Animals such as cows, horses, sheep, goats, termites, and soil bacteria possess the necessary enzymes to digest cellulose."<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/547cellulose.html" target="_blank">http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...cellulose.html</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>compassionate1</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Are you saying that TCS is based on pseudo-science? Or am I just reading that sentence incorrectly (always highly possible <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> )?</div>
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No, although some people would say that and mean it in exactly that way. What I mean is that Colin Campbell discusses that very problem in a section of the book and walks through some examples of how junk science is used (and valid science misused) by people with agendas to perpetuate misleading ideas. Of course, you have to remember that everyone has an agenda. Unfortunately, the only way to tell the reasonable interpretations from unreasonable requires both the ability and the will to get hold of the original studies, and go through them all with an educated eye. It also helps if you have information on who is actually funding the studies and what their agenda is, which can be hard to come by. The average layperson can't feasibly do that, so it comes down to a question of who you trust. I personally have concluded that Campbell is trustworthy.
 

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Thanks Tess,<br><br><br><br>
I thought that's what you meant, but wanted to make sure. I've always thought the same thing about Dr. Campbell, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss the boat somewhere. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>CoolPercussion</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
What do those stand for?</div>
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from what i understand, certified nutrition consultant = mail order garbage. I read an article once about a puppy that passed the test and became a CNC.
 

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I'm at a high risk for heart disease because my parents have/had it and their parents had it. So, I try to watch my intact of certain things.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>gaya</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
from what i understand, certified nutrition consultant = mail order garbage. I read an article once about a puppy that passed the test and became a CNC.</div>
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Actually, like any health profession, there are good & bad CNCs.<br><br>
And many mediocre CNCs still know more about nutrition than MDs.<br><br><br><br>
This discussion would be enhanced by an explanation of <i>why</i> each bad element impacts heart health, rather than simply listing them, although that might be a challenge.<br><br><br><br>
All of the aforementioned foods sound terrible, so perhaps it would be best to avoid them all, rather than praising saturated fats in order to bash carbohydrates, etc.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>organica</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Actually, like any health profession, there are good & bad CNCs.<br><br>
And many mediocre CNCs still know more about nutrition than MDs.<br></div>
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Since any one can be a CNC by taking a test via mail, I don't see the value in it. It's meaningless. At least MD's are forced to take at least one class in nutrition. One class isn't needed to become a CNC, which is why a dog can hold the title. But...makes no difference to me who buys into what. It's bitter sweet lol.<br><br><br><br>
for what it's worth tho I know many do not appreciate quackwatch<br><br><a href="http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/aanc.html" target="_blank">http://www.quackwatch.org/04Consumer...corg/aanc.html</a>
 
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