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Discussion Starter #1
Hi you wonderful veggie people. My mum was sorting through a bag of old papers when she stumbled across this weird magazine-type-thing called "Had Enough". My nan had sent it to us (maybe she wanted us (me and my sis) to eat meat again. Want to know what the front page says?<br><br>
" Had ENOUGH?<br><br>
Enough soya burgers and sprouts?<br><br>
Enough forcing gallons of water down your throat?<br><br>
Enough exercising until you can barely breathe?<br><br><br><br>
BEFORE YOU GIVE UP EVERYTHING<br><br>
just because 'everyone' says it's healthy...<br><br><br><br>
SEE INSIDE FOR THE REAL HEALTH FACST AND ENJOY A HEALTHY LIFE:<br><br><br><br>
I'm not going to bore you with the mindless rubbish they've printed in these 18 pages of nothing but this is some of what they've written about (its actually quite funny)....<br><br><br><br>
Page 3 welcomes you with this:<br><br>
-------<br><br>
"Everywhere you turn today, everyone keeps nagging at you:<br><br>
"You're not eating enough VEGETABLES!"<br><br>
"You're not getting enough EXERCISE"<br><br>
"Give up MEAT! Give up COFFEE!"<br><br>
"Get out of the SUN!"<br><br>
"While you're at it, GIVE UP EVERYTHING!"<br><br><br><br>
Nag, nag, nag! They NEVER let up! But I've got great news... "<br><br>
-----<br><br><br><br>
Then it goes on about some other useless crap...........<br><br>
"First we'll get the diet Nazis (?!?!?!?!) out of your life. I mean.....<br><br>
Everyone's urging "EATING YOUR VEGETABLES"<br><br>
But please don't overdo it. Because the actual figures reveal:<br><br>
VEGETARIANS DIE YOUNGER. Oh, they TELL you they're healthier, but cenus data shows the opposite. Plus....<br><br>
VEGETARIAN KIDS ARE SICKLIER.<br><br>
---<br><br><br><br><br><br>
lalalala. i think u get the message. Anyway the man behind this little magazine is "Alternative Medicine's Legendary Leader Dr. WILLIAM CAMPBELL DOUGLASS"<br><br>
whoever he is.<br><br><br><br>
This sorta thing REALLY annoys me. The public are being fed all this junk and they dont know whats true and what isnt!! They dont know whether to turn veggie or keep eating dead animals. You know w hat? Even if that guy is right (even though he isnt) i wouldnt care, because the reason i turned veggie is cause of the animals, not my health. Not one bit of that little magazine had anything like "cows dont suffer..".<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Well, im gonna put this lovely lil piece of junk in the shredder<br><br><br><br>
~Katyxx
 

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Did it say "Sponsored by the Center of Consumer Freedom" at the bottom? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br><br><br><br>
If you're not familiar with them they're a group here in the US that supports the interest of businesses that make money from selling junk food and alcohol but they claim to stand up for consumers and their freedom of choice.<br><br><br><br>
I guess if you have to explain a joke it's not really that funny to begin with. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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"Jesus, I'm gone for a week and it all goes to hell!"<br><br><br><br>
hey-- that's just what I was thinking [out here in Malta<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">]
 

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I took that quote from Soilman's board. VeganKat said it in reference to whatever turmoil was going on at VB at the time. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> I asked her if she recognized it but she never wrote me back. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":(">
 

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That "Had Enough" crap sounds like the "Why I'm Disillusioned with Veganism" piece of idiocy that I posted on here awhile ago when I wasn't equipped to explain to my mother bit by bit how all of it was bunk.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Where did they ever get the idea that vegetarians die younger. How can we if we have better health? It's propaganda for sure.
 

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This is all just a matter of telling people what they want to hear. Anyone with any real sense will realize that, and know this "expert" is full of scat. Just because an "expert" says so, doesn't make it true - can you say "quack"?<br><br>
I mean, how much of a quack do you have to be to claim that exercise isn't so healthy for you!<br><br><br><br>
Besides, i *love* drinking water, i can't get enough of soy burgers (or riblets anyway! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> ), I don't like coffee, and i don't like getting a tan .. so take that, quack! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/whack.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":whack:">
 

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vegetarians die younger<br><br><br><br>
Statistics can be used to show anything.<br><br><br><br>
Younger in relevance to<br><br><br><br>
A meat eating couch potato ..because.<br><br><br><br>
Veg*ns are more likely to be higher educated, so get paid more, travel more.<br><br>
Their change to get killed wile walking in the sun, or travelling around is bigger and compared to the couch potato<br><br>
They die younger.<br><br><br><br>
If someone used statistics to prove a point you have to very aware of the relevance of the survey.
 

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I found part of this article posted on a bulletin board here at my University. I hastily typed up a reply and posted it on top. You may or may not want to read it, it's rather cynical, but I was mildly annoyed:<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Where did you find this stuff?<br><br><br><br>
A quick Google search reveals:<br><br><a href="http://www.realhealthnews.com/fedup/enough.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.realhealthnews.com/fedup/enough.shtml</a><br><br>
as the top hit, but its probably scattered all about the ever so reputable internet.<br><br><br><br>
It would be ad hominem to even mention the other things that site preaches (and tries to sell), so I wont go there.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Logical fallacy #1<br><br><br><br>
Vegetarians die younger? Why would that be?<br><br>
Considering the majority of vegetarians in the world are vegetarians because of improvised conditions- i.e. People in Africa who dont have food. That valid statistical fact is, in fact, nothing of the sort. May I suggest you read an excellent book entitled How to lie with statistics (which Mr. Douglass mentions on his site; I wonder why he read the book) which will help you learn about how skewing statistics by being vague about who is and is not included in the group can lead to deceptive results.<br><br><br><br>
So, while it is true that vegetarians as an entire group die younger, people who chose to be vegetarians and are not forced to abstain from meat due to abject poverty should not be included in the same group. It is fallacious and deceptive to try to do so- which by not specifying one can only assume he is including all people who fall under the classification of vegetarian.<br><br><br><br>
In a wealthy nation such as this where nutrients are removed and added again to just about everything, its very difficult to become deficient in anything as a vegetarian- though being vegan can be slightly more difficult if eating a traditional American diet. A really severe idiot could manage to muddle up their health by becoming a vegetarian- I might suggest some people not attempt to do so.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Vegetarian kids are sicklier? I wonder if that wouldnt be the same reason as stated above turns out, what you and your friend Mr. Douglass are referring to is related to iron deficiency. Most products in the US are fortified, and iron deficiencies in developed countries arent that common even in severe idiots who chose to be vegetarians.<br><br><br><br>
That said, there are some severely idiotic vegetarian teens who eat nothing but potato chips and drink nothing but coke- what a wonderful diet for anybody! Obviously those people are going to develop deficiencies just as do omnivores who chose a very poor diet. Most cases of deficient vegetarian teens occur when the parents are not vegetarians and thus have no knowledge on which to instruct their children- not only do these kids rebel against meat, but they often wont eat anything green either.<br><br><br><br>
The grouping of these statistics is highly questionable, regarding both vegetarians due to financial reasons in developing countries and the typical vegetarian teen- this is not an ethical approach to statistics.<br><br><br><br>
Vegetarian diets wont make you more regular? Well, what is a vegetarian diet? Fiber will make you more regular, but not all vegetarians eat more fiber than omnivores. The only group listed was teenage vegetarians- they, as a group, tend to eat a great deal of cheese as replacement for meat- and what does cheese do? Enough said. That particular group may have problems due to their replacement of other foods merely with cheese, but vegans are more regular. I would rather not prove that, but I can if forced to.<br><br><br><br>
Sap your sex life?<br><br>
Muscle loss?<br><br>
Bone damage?<br><br><br><br>
Meatless diets are not inherently low protein diets, this fact mentions low protein diets (which are generally meatless). This is a logical fallacy in assuming that one means the other.<br><br><br><br>
Meatless does not mean low protein (because most other things have protein in them), though low protein does generally mean meatless (because meat has protein in it).<br><br><br><br>
Once you understand this, you will understand why the study sited is not applicable in the sense that it is being used. The wording is both presumptuous and deceptive.<br><br><br><br>
Researchers have proven just about anything and everything- there is actually more convincing evidence that high protein diets cause bone loss, and damage to the digestive system.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
If you actually accepted these facts at face value, I truly pity you.</div>
</div>
<br><br><br>
I implied a few times that the student who posted up those "facts" was an idiot- they only posted it because they knew I was a vegetarian and frequented this area of campus. I probably used 'idiot' to the point of redundancy, but maybe the poster will read it and be thusly condescended.<br><br><br><br>
Well, I took the time to type it, and it's a valid critique of the article, so I thought I'd post it here.
 

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I feel the same way as you.. it's very annoying to come across stuff like that. And knowing how selfish people are. That's why they don't talk about the cows. As long as it's a good thing for whoever buys that crap, that's all that matters. Even though what that magazine suggests isn't good for people. But as long as they think it is :p
 

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Oh, darn! I thought this was going to be a gripe thread, and I just got home from "Thanksgiving" Dinner at Momma's. Since this isn't, I won't burden you with the whole disgusting tale.
 

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Ah, well I really just resurrected this two year old thread because I wanted to provide this to anybody who has had these "facts" brought up to them, and maybe to get a couple comments on my retort. I'm told it was a good touché.<br><br><br><br>
Sorry there isn't any griping. I don't gripe much, I argue, that's my thing- when my roommate irritated me off I wrote a couple page essay arguing how worthless he was to society. To each her/his own.
 
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