[559beatles]

Hi everyone.<br><br>
When I first joined the forum, I made a post about how I was weak from a liver transplant surgery (had to donate 60% of it to my Dad who had cancer) and how it was difficult for me to stay true to veganism. Well, I stuck it out and never betrayed my beliefs.<br><br>
But now I am stuck in a very difficult situation. Kind of like a hypothetical situation that omnis use to defend their choices, but in my case, it's real.<br><br>
My Dad's cancer came back (seems like what I did was in vain), his oncologist gave him six months to a year to live. Needless to say, I am devastated, sad and scared.<br><br>
He has been an omni all his life and now that I am taking care of him, I have to go out and buy meat/eggs/milk and cook for him.<br><br>
I care about animals but I LOVE my Dad, and now is not the time for me to quibble about my beliefs. So I just do whatever he asks.<br><br>
Not sure why I made this post, as I am not going to change my mind about this. I guess I just wanted to get it off my chest.

 

[Capstan]

Sorry to hear about your Dad. Do what you have to do; I might well do the same under similar circumstances. Again, sorry about what you're going through. Peace.

 

[Jinkies]

I know you're not asking for advice and won't take it anyway, but I'll still give you some. Don't be a doormat. Stand up for your beliefs. Buy your father vegan food and cook that instead of things you know are horrific. It's not like vegan food tastes bad or anything. If he's a jerk and bitches about you taking the time to do things for him just point to your liver (your choice if it's the bit in you or the bit in him) and tell him to stuff it.<br><br>
When you say things like "I have to," you're wrong. You <i>choose</i> to. It's up to you whether or not you make the right choice.

 

[Photojess]

do you know that a vegan diet is the healthiest for a cancer patient? watch this video clip from Renegade Health with Charlotte Gerson who still runs the Gerson cancer Institute.....<br><br>
there's a ton of info out there on treating cancer with a whole food plant based diet....my sister is doing it herself right now too......also be aware that the casein- protein in dairy is a major carcinogen and actually promotes tumor growth. That info comes directly from The China Study by Dr T. Colin Campbell who did the research.....<br><br>
Basically, I guess I'm saying do what you think you have to do, but try to get as many meatless meals in your dad that you can, and ditch the dairy if at all possible!<br><br>
Here's Dr Campbell's youtube video on the meat and dairy causing cancer at least: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsT-qYeqGM</a>

 

[SomebodyElse]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you cooking it for your Dad, or eating it with him? Plenty of folk feed their animals meat, and it doesn't stop them calling themselves vegan.<br><br>
I do agree though that the fewer animal products your Dad eats the better off he will be, healthwise.

 

[KrisMTL]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000749"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you cooking it for your Dad, or eating it with him? Plenty of folk feed their animals meat, and it doesn't stop them calling themselves vegan.<br><br>
I do agree though that the fewer animal products your Dad eats the better off he will be, healthwise.</div>
</div>
<br>
I'm confused too. Are you just helping with groceries and such, or eating animal products yourself?

 

[559beatles]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jinkies</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000706"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I know you're not asking for advice and won't take it anyway, but I'll still give you some. Don't be a doormat. Stand up for your beliefs. Buy your father vegan food and cook that instead of things you know are horrific. It's not like vegan food tastes bad or anything. If he's a jerk and bitches about you taking the time to do things for him just point to your liver (your choice if it's the bit in you or the bit in him) and tell him to stuff it.<br><br>
When you say things like "I have to," you're wrong. You <i>choose</i> to. It's up to you whether or not you make the right choice.</div>
</div>
<br>
There is a difference between being a doormat and doing something out of compassion for someone.<br><br>
How callous are you that you had to use words like 'jerk' to address my dying father? Just because someone is an omni doesn't mean he/she is any less of a human being. My Dad is the greatest man I know and he did a wonderful job raising me.<br><br>
No wonder why the rest of the world has such a poor perception of vegans.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000749"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Are you cooking it for your Dad, or eating it with him? Plenty of folk feed their animals meat, and it doesn't stop them calling themselves vegan.</div>
</div>
<br><br>
I am not eating the meat but participating in animal cruelty, by definition, means that I am no longer a vegan.<br><br>
They can call themselves anything they like but people who feed their 'pets' meat are not vegan.

 

[Jinkies]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>559beatles</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
There is a difference between being a doormat and doing something out of compassion for someone.</div>
</div>
<br>
I completely agree with what you wrote here and still stand by my original statement.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>559beatles</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How callous are you that you had to use words like 'jerk' to address my dying father? Just because someone is an omni doesn't mean he/she is any less of a human being. My Dad is the greatest man I know and he did a wonderful job raising me.</div>
</div>
<br>
I said if your dad bitches at you after you do nice things for him he would be a jerk. I did not say he is a jerk or even imply that it's likely he's a jerk. I was describing a hypothetical situation. I'll cut you some slack on this one since it appears you just didn't understand what I wrote.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>559beatles</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No wonder why the rest of the world has such a poor perception of vegans.</div>
</div>
<br>
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings so bad that you feel I give all vegans a bad name.

 

[Nishani]

Sorry to hear about your Dad, I know exactly how you feel. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""><br><br>
For the last eighteen months, I cared for my mum during a terminal illness where I had to cook and shop for her. Most of the time, I would cook her veganised versions of her favourite meals where possible, which she enjoyed, but there were occasions when I couldn't always be there at meal times and she'd ask me to purchase those nasty pre-made meals which were easy for her to throw in the microwave and some of these would contain meat because that's what she requested.<br><br>
When her appetite was poor at times, and that's the only thing that she felt like she could easily cope with preparing herself and eating, it would have been inappropropriate of me to put my ethics before her illness and refuse to buy these items, especially when there was no one else around at that point to do it. There were days when I also had to buy milk and eggs for her and going through the checkout with those items didn't feel comfortable for me, but there were many days when I was just glad she was eating anything at all, so it's one of those situations where you just suck it up and do it because you love them. It's not like I was buying these items with my own money, it's just the ick-factor that is hard to deal with isn't it. So rest assured, what you are doing is a good thing and not wrong in any way. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=""><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Jinkies</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000769"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings so bad that you feel I give all vegans a bad name. Please grow some thicker skin. If you didn't want any opinions it probably would have been best not to write an "I'm throwing out my ethics and you can't stop me" post in the vegan section of this forum.</div>
</div>
<br>
The OP is not "throwing out their ethics" because they are neither paying for or eating the animal products that they are dealing with. They are simply making a short-term compromise about coming into direct contact with animal products where they normally would refuse to for compassionate reasons. Telling the OP to grow a thicker skin in what is no doubt a very upsetting situation for them, is totally insensitive and inappropriate.

 

[AlixJ18]

I agree with photojess if anything, now is the time to actually get him off animal products, not even for the animals but for his health, especially if he can't do it himself, then it should be easy enough, i think you should get him to switch either by telling him or simply not cooking with animal products, give him vegetables beans and grains. I watched forks over knives and if their research is true then going off animal products have actually saved other peoples lives, maybe it can at least somewhat help your dad.

 

[.Goth-Alice.]

Im sorry that you are going through this. I have and it is a horrible situation to be in.<br>
I felt I had to post after reading Jinkies post. Are you bloody serious...I am lost for words on how rude your post was.<br>
When someone is dying from a cancer then believe me, you are happy when they want to eat/drink anything at all. You go past the stage of caring whether it is meat or dairy, even if you believe with all your heart that those things are wrong.<br>
And throwing something like an organ donation back in someones face is just disgusting. You do that to HELP someone. Not to have a trump card in an arguement.

 

[fadeaway1289]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>.Goth-Alice.</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000811"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im sorry that you are going through this. I have and it is a horrible situation to be in.<br>
I felt I had to post after reading Jinkies post. Are you bloody serious...I am lost for words on how rude your post was.<br>
When someone is dying from a cancer then believe me, you are happy when they want to eat/drink anything at all. You go past the stage of caring whether it is meat or dairy, even if you believe with all your heart that those things are wrong.<br>
And throwing something like an organ donation back in someones face is just disgusting. You do that to HELP someone. Not to have a trump card in an arguement.</div>
</div>
<br>
^This.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hug:">I am so sorry for what you are going through. Your story is heart breaking yet heartwarming at the same time. Your love for your father, your compassion, and your willingness to go through a risky surgery that will and probably has greatly impacted your life in order to help save your father is amazing. You are an incredible daughter/son. I am sure your father appreciates everything you've done for him and are doing for him.<br><br>
It's going to be a very difficult and extremely emotional next 6 months - a year for the both of you. Do what you have to do to take care of your father and to make it a non stressful and comfortable time for him.<br><br>
Please also remember to take care of yourself during this time. You will also need some help and support.

 

[m00ch]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>.Goth-Alice.</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000811"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Im sorry that you are going through this. I have and it is a horrible situation to be in.<br>
I felt I had to post after reading Jinkies post. Are you bloody serious...I am lost for words on how rude your post was.<br>
When someone is dying from a cancer then believe me, you are happy when they want to eat/drink anything at all. You go past the stage of caring whether it is meat or dairy, even if you believe with all your heart that those things are wrong.<br>
And throwing something like an organ donation back in someones face is just disgusting. You do that to HELP someone. Not to have a trump card in an arguement.</div>
</div>
<br><br>
+1 . Can't believe how appallingly insensitive and rude that was.<br><br>
To the OP - I wish you all the best in tough times ahead. Do what you feel is best for your dad, to keep him as happy and comfortable as possible.<br><br>
I do believe nutrition helps in times like these though. There is a blog I read online sometimes : <a href="http://foodtoglow.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">http://foodtoglow.wordpress.com/</a> . It's all about making, healthy, nutritious, tasty, and easy to digest foods for cancer patients (not always veg*n). Perhaps it could be of help?<br><br>
Either way - you have to do what you feel is right for your dad, and I doubt anyone with an ounce of compassion will hold your decision against you, whatever it may be. Keep your chin up.

 

[Doktormartini]

If you have to buy the eggs, meat, and milk (do you? Feed him healthier foods) then at least by the local organic stuff.

 

[JoBravo]

Sometimes we make sacrifices for the ones we love in their times of need even if those sacrifices require us to act against our morals.<br><br>
I think this fully qualifies as one of those time.

 

[IamJen]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>SomebodyElse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000749"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Are you cooking it for your Dad, or eating it with him? Plenty of folk feed their animals meat, and it doesn't stop them calling themselves vegan.<br><br>
I do agree though that the fewer animal products your Dad eats the better off he will be, healthwise.</div>
</div>
<br>
Ditto.

 

[mollycakes]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JoBravo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000886"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Sometimes we make sacrifices for the ones we love in their times of need even if those sacrifices require us to act against our morals.<br><br>
I think this fully qualifies as one of those time.</div>
</div>
<br>
I agree. ^^<br><br>
I'm sorry to hear about your father. Make the time that you spend with him valuable and filled with love.

 

[luvourmother]

<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>559beatles</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3000761"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
I am not eating the meat but participating in animal cruelty, by definition, means that I am no longer a vegan.<br><br>
They can call themselves anything they like but people who feed their 'pets' meat are not vegan.</div>
</div>
<br>
This is where personal ethics come into play. Veganism isn't a strict definition, yes we don't consume animal products but there is leeway in how each of us applies that to our own lives. i consider you still vegan eventhough you are feeding someone else animal products, you still aren't consuming them yourselve right? i also consider those of us that feed their non-human companions animal products as vegan. this is your role as a caregiver and you can still be vegan, just don't eat the animal products yourself.

 

[Joan Kennedy]

I hope you're feeling stronger now from your liver donation surgery. That was an awful lot to go through, and I'm so very sorry it couldn't buy your father more time. I lost my mother to cancer a couple of months ago, and during her final six months, it was increasingly difficult to know how much to put her through -- which procedures would extend her life and which would just prolong her death. Bless you for being there for your father.

 

[Identity_thief]

I wouldn't say someone wasn't vegan for doing what you're doing. Plenty of vegans live with non-vegans and shop for them/on their behalf. By the sounds of it, it isn't even your money, it's his. The way I see it, from what I've read, is your dad chooses what he eats and he choses not to be vegan, just because he's unable to shop and cook for himself doesn't make it anyone elses choice.