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Discussion Starter #1
Hey. i just wanted to know what do you guys think about freedom? I as an American rarely feel free. I have begun to believe freedom no longer exists. I know that if we had total freedom the world would be in caos. But hey its already in caos. anyways what do you guys think? Is anyone really free? Do you feel free?
 

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It really depends on your concept of what freedom means to you.<br><br><br><br>
In some countries, for example, you could be arrested and/or even executed for posting on a publicly accessible message board speaking out against the Gov't. In contrast, we enjoy yhe freedom of speech here.<br><br><br><br>
It just depends on what freedom means to you.
 

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I really value the freedom of speech our govt allows. It is restricted functionally, however, when too few people control mass media and pick and choose what kinds of messages are communicated.<br><br><br><br>
I have never been out of the USaside from Canada, so I can't really say how other people have it. But I do feel free, however, "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" (either t.Jefferson, or B. Franklin, I've heard both men credited with this idea), and that is why I try to keep up on civil liberties issues, write my congress people, know what my rights are, etc.
 

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I feel somewhat free. Yet, I probably just am not aware of some laws that I am breaking, for instance - the man that was arrested for wearing a peace t-shirt...I would have thought that I could legally wear that shirt in the mall. I doubt that I would have removed it and I would have been shocked when they arrested me.<br><br>
When we lived in Colorado, we lived in an upper-middle class neighborhood. I was pregnant with my 5th child; husband was working a lot...both very busy. We committed a great sin and allowed a hedge to over-hang our sidewalk...an actual cop knocked on our door and asked us to cut it.<br><br>
I recently watched some video of a peace march, where police beat marchers that had not provoked them and I saw them to continue to be beaten when it was obvious that they had given up.<br><br>
I think Americans are less free than they think they are. (Because we are simply used to the way things are...sure it could be a lot worse, but it can always be worse.)<br><br>
I haven't smoked pot since I was a teenager...and I would like to.<br><br>
I certainly don't feel *free* to.<br><br>
Most American children are not free to attend a good safe public school.<br><br>
Women can't go topless just because they are "hot"<br><br>
But, LC...you are a child, so you have your parents rules to deal with in addition to societies. Don't worry, that will end soon.
 

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For the record, a mall is a private place. No "law" was passed against wearing "peace" t-shirts. The mall has a policy against certain apparel, the patrons refused to abide by the rule.<br><br><br><br>
Under the premise you and LC are pushing, if there is anything I can't do that I want to do, then my freedoms are being infringed upon.<br><br><br><br>
Ya know, you're right. Tomorrow I'm going to get up early and blast music in the street to wake my neighbors, ten I'm going to urinate in the local water supply. After that, I think I will expose myself to all of the local women. Free at last, free at last. Finally, I will be free at last. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rolleyes:">
 

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If men can go topless, women should be able to. A women going topless is a bit different than you peeing in the street, Tame.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Tame</i><br><br><b>After that, I think I will expose myself to all of the local women.</b></div>
</div>
<br><i>Again???</i> You make a good point, though.<br><br><br><br>
I don't think "freedom" is readily accessible without some qualification. Freedom to what? Freedom from what? I think that seems to be a common issue raised already. I think I'd accept this as an appropriate definition of what social/legal "freedom" should look like:<br><br><br><br>
"Ability to X" where X is an "action" and,<br><br>
"Ability to avoid Y" where Y is an "undesireable effect" of X;<br><br>
Where X does not infringe on any other person's "ability to X" more than one would wish their own "ability to X" to be infringed; and<br><br>
Where X does not expose any person to Y more than one would wish to be exposed to relevant effects of Y, themselves.<br><br><br><br>
Therefore, no, Tame, you can't piss in the public water supply. "What if T-diddy likes pisswater?" The "relevant effect" here is not "having piss in water" it's "having contaminated water". So sure, if Tame likes pisswater, then here's some pure, "tainted" Evian for you. "Shouldn't Tame be free from un-pissed-in water?" He should (and does) have the freedom to avoid piss-free water and nothing anyone else does prevents that freedom, so yes, he's perfectly free to have pisswater while not infringing on another's freedom to piss-free water.
 

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Ah, piss on you. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/wink3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=";)"><br><br><br><br>
Mushroom - you show me yours, I'll show you mine.<br><br><br><br>
Why can't I be free to get naked anywhere and everywhere?
 

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I'd sure like to give this freedom thing a whirl at some point; however I am not of the 'free world' (since Bush is its leader and he isn't my leader (although my 'leader' (Mini-Dubya/Deputy Sherrif Howard) seems to think he is... not happy, John).
 

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Although I am concerned with issues of civil liberties like any good member of the ACLU, I really doubt that there are other countries that are so much more free across the board (on every issue) And even if I go live someplace a few years and find out it's better than the US as far as freedom, before moving there permanently I would prefer to stay here and try to change things for the better.<br><br><br><br>
Yes there are problems, every country has them, most are much worse than here.
 

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Once again, let me say the unspeakable:<br><br><br><br>
DMCA.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq_local.html" target="_blank">http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq_local.html</a>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Rushabh</i><br><br><b>Once again, let me say the unspeakable:<br><br><br><br>
DMCA.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq_local.html" target="_blank">http://www.anti-dmca.org/faq_local.html</a></b></div>
</div>
<br>
I agree with the position of the site, but let me point out that it says:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Don't think this law is limited to the US. Similar laws along with outrageous Search and Seizure laws are also being enacted around the globe.</div>
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<br><br><br>
I get very angry and scared by these kinds of things, and many others. I really do. But I also have to keep it all in perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I dont often feel free. I mostly feel that I am being ordered around at school at home etc. They say we are a "free" country since we have the freedom of speech, religion, etc. All freedoms a person should AUTOMATICALLY have. Its just cruel and wrong for a person to not have those freedoms or to have a government where these things are forced on you. I know that there needs to be some kind of law since some people have no moral standards. But thats where I am unsure about freedom; how much freedom should a person have.
 

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question, is it illegal for a woman to walk around with her shirt off in public in the U.S.?<br><br><br><br>
we had a huge thing a while back when it actually became legal for women to go topless, just like it's legal for men to be topless.<br><br><br><br>
however, y'all might be disappointed (and by y'all i mean tame)- making no shirts legal for women hasn't caused mass nakedness.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
actually i disagree with women going topless because the point is guys have nothing there but women do. i think fat guys with boobs however should not be allowed to go topless if women cant since they have boobs too.
 
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