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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, vegans.<br><br>
Preamble: I'm a vegetarian, and eating dairy is on my "probably shouldn't do that" list. The treatment of chickens for their eggs, however, is something I can no longer abide by.<br><br>
I've been buying free-run eggs lately- after checking with the farmers to confirm that they lived in a real open-concept environment, of course- and I was curious as to your thoughts on the ethics of it. Do you eat free-run eggs? Why or why not?
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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I eat eggs from the farmer up the road, the chickens run around outside all day long, and i even get to pet/play with them when go to pick up the eggs. I never liked the taste of eggs, so I only use them in baking.<br><br><br>
I actually think dairy is far far far worse than eggs.
 

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Riot Nrrrd
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My dad has a few chickens on his acreage to eat ticks. He's offered me eggs from his hens, but I turned him down. Ethics aren't even something I needed to consider though. I made the decision against accepting the eggs because I take pride in my cooking skills and my style doesn't use animal products.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901936"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've been buying free-run eggs lately- after checking with the farmers to confirm that they lived in a real open-concept environment, of course- and I was curious as to your thoughts on the ethics of it. Do you eat free-run eggs? Why or why not?</div>
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How about male chicks?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901936"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hey, vegans....Do you eat free-run eggs?</div>
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If someone eats eggs, they're not vegan.<br><br>
Chicks are sexed after birth. For every hen there is an unwanted male chick. They're killed in gruesome ways. Please take a look at this:<br><a href="http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/" target="_blank">http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/</a><br><br>
What happens to the hens when they get too old to produce adequate eggs for the farmer?<br><br>
You have to look at the whole lifecycle of the animal, not just a moment in time on the farm.
 

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You're aware that your asking "do you eat eggs" in a room full of vegans?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2901936"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Hey, vegans.<br><br>
Preamble: I'm a vegetarian, and eating dairy is on my "probably shouldn't do that" list. The treatment of chickens for their eggs, however, is something I can no longer abide by.<br><br><b>I've been buying free-run eggs lately</b>- after checking with the farmers to confirm that they lived in a real open-concept environment, of course- and I was curious as to your thoughts on the ethics of it. Do you eat free-run eggs? Why or why not?</div>
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Have you indeed? Are these eggs supermarket purchased? Do you know much about the company that produces them? Are you sure it's not just a dishonest label slapped on a carton of factory farmed eggs? What about the male chicks?
 

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Rat Queen/Mouse Matriarch
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From a welfare standpoint, I'm not sure eggs are truly humane unless they were from rescue chickens being kept as pets and/or treated very well and allowed to live out their lives. Please correct me if there are other exceptions. Most chickens come from hatcheries that kill male chicks by grinding them alive, gassing them or suffocating them in garbage bags.<br><br>
From an animal rights standpoint, chickens do not exist for us to use.<br><br>
I don't trust the "free range" label but visiting a farm and asking many questions is a good idea. Here are the conditions at many "free-range" farms compared to battery cage farms: <a href="http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html" target="_blank">http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html</a>
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I see a lot of the responses I'm getting are along the lines of "hello? Vegan here?". Sure, you're vegan- but we all make different decisions about eating, and everyone's diets are different. Some people don't eat honey. Some people don't eat anything from companies affiliated with animal products. Some people won't eat things that are cooked in the same oil that animal products have been cooked in- we all have the responsibility of examining our choices. Labels help us categorize, but they're not a say-all end-all. Many people who I speak with call themselves vegetarian but eat fish. Not my ball game, but you see what I'm saying.<br><br>
Anyway. In response to the inquiries, the farm I buy from keeps adult males around for fertilization and company. Hatching is done on-farm. My views on animal rights don't disallow the use of animals as long as they are content. As such, yeah, I think my choice is justifiable. But this wasn't supposed to be about my choice.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2902075"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I see a lot of the responses I'm getting are along the lines of "hello? Vegan here?". Sure, you're vegan- but we all make different decisions about eating, and everyone's diets are different. Some people don't eat honey. Some people don't eat anything from companies affiliated with animal products. Some people won't eat things that are cooked in the same oil that animal products have been cooked in- we all have the responsibility of examining our choices. Labels help us categorize, but they're not a say-all end-all. Many people who I speak with call themselves vegetarian but eat fish. Not my ball game, but you see what I'm saying.</div>
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There are shades of gray and all, but yeah, I think eggs not being vegan is kinda basic <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well, regardless, I <i>do</i> appreciate the responses. I've visited the farms, and there was no cruelty to my eyes. If the linked material applies to your local area, I'm very sorry to hear that- and very grateful that you shared the reasons behind your choices.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2902078"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Well, regardless, I <i>do</i> appreciate the responses. I've visited the farms, and there was no cruelty to my eyes. If the linked material applies to your local area, I'm very sorry to hear that- and very grateful that you shared the reasons behind your choices.</div>
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What do the farms do with the male chicks?<br><br>
What do they do with the hens when they stop laying?
 

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I would never trust that I get a good impression of a farm's practices by visiting there a couple of times. I would need to actually work there or to live there, to see the full spectrum of how the animals are treated: what happens when there are medical problems, where (possible) new animals are obtained from, what kind of people are working there, how often the animals' enclosures are cleaned, and on and on.<br><br>
So that's why it's just easier not to eat animal products because I don't need to go through the trouble of obtaining all that information. Plus, this way I can embody an objection to the cultural category of animals as food sources.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Earthling- almost all eggs are not hatched. Males are kept, like I said, as company and fertilizers. Yes, all males are kept- farms are heavily subsidized where I live, and they charge more than other places so they can afford to do so. Infertile hens are taken on exhibition tours and for classroom showing. Yes, they are transported humanely.<br><br>
Sevenseas- so you find it easier to be vegan than do a ton of research? I can see that. Also an image thing, huh? Interesting. Hadn't thought about that.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2902087"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Sevenseas- so you find it easier to be vegan than do a ton of research? I can see that. Also an image thing, huh? Interesting. Hadn't thought about that.</div>
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That was an interesting way of rephrasing Seven's post. This is the vegan SUPPORT forum, btw.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Herbivoracious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2902087"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Sevenseas- so you find it easier to be vegan than do a ton of research? I can see that.</div>
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Yes, when that research means <i>first-hand experience for a long period of time</i>.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Also an image thing, huh? Interesting. Hadn't thought about that.</div>
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Not so much an image thing as taking a political/moral stance with respect to how non-humans are viewed in culture.
 

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What's the name/contact info for this farm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
penny79, Sevenseas- I was not intending to devalue Sevenseas' motives. I'm sorry- I work as an economist, so my terminology gets kind of blunt sometimes. I respect his/her choices. I am not contesting veganism! I am only seeking insight!<br><br>
Irizary- the farm is a backyard operation, so I'm afraid there's no online presence or anything. I only know of it because it's run by a family friend. If you want to talk to him yourself, his personal number is 5l9-73l-432O.<br>
EDIT: His name's Jake Harriot, by the way- and the operation makes under $ 30 000 CAD a year, so they don't have a name or any such corporate identity.<br><br>
EDIT2: Wait- hold on. Do you believe that I made up a farm to devalue people's arguments? o.o Holy moly... I understand that vegans face a lot of persecution from day-to-day, but I swear, I mean no ill intent. As penny79 said, this is a support forum- I'm not a trolling ass that's trying to rattle the cage (or cage-free), and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I am interested in vegan motivation and ethics, nothing more sinister than that.
 

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Thanks.<br><br>
Do you know how many animals are on this farm?<br><br>
Are you asking me that edit2? That's not what I'm implying. Although I do not think it is as wonderful as you say it is, and I would like to find out more. I have never seen the use of animals for commerce in which the animals are sincerely well treated when you go a little deeper. Ultimately they're there for profit. Maybe it's a hobby farm and the money isn't important to him, in which case the animals might fare better.
 
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