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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hello all,

i want to post that i am not trying to ruffle any feathers or pizz anybody off. and i COMPLETELY respect your life decisions.

i have been raised in a country family where hunting and fishing was normal life. But, i am always trying to expand my horizons,so i figured i would ask you guys/gals, why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive?? i would just like some insight from a culture that i don't understand.
 

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This forum is for vegetarians or people who are actively working towards being one. That is listed in the requirements you are to read before you even make an account. If you are not already vegetarian or aiming to be one, this is not the forum for you.
 

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Why do you need an answer from any of us? Just put yourself in the place of the fish or the deer and ask yourself how you'd like it.
 

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you could ask "why is shooting people wrong, when it was alright in world war 2?"

our ancestors had few options when it came to providing food and cloths for themselves, where as people in developed countries have a lot more choice, generally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomebodyElse View Post

Why do you need an answer from any of us? Just put yourself in the place of the fish or the deer and ask yourself how you'd like it.
to this i will respond with population control. asian carp i my part of the country are literally taking over the native species. so, is it wrong to try to irradicate this invasive species?? or the fact that deer are so over populated that they reproduce/imbreed, and create a much weaker and more unstable and desiese infested generation of deer which will ultimately suffer much more.

again, people, i am just trying to gain an insight into a culture that i am not formiliar with.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

hello all,

i want to post that i am not trying to ruffle any feathers or pizz anybody off. and i COMPLETELY respect your life decisions.

i have been raised in a country family where hunting and fishing was normal life. But, i am always trying to expand my horizons,so i figured i would ask you guys/gals, why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive?? i would just like some insight from a culture that i don't understand.
Unfortunately you're gonna get banned here because this is a support forum for vegetarians only, BUT I will totally answer your question.

You said it yourself, our ancestors needed to hunt and fish to survive. We live in a world where we have plenty of other options and since animals can feel pain and fear it's wrong to kill them just for the taste. That's the vegetarian viewpoint, hope it helps.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive??
Well, if you want to behave like your ancestors, you should go way back and look at australopithecus (not sure about the spelling, sorry) and previous humans, who were actually frugivores and rarely, if at all, ate meat. Most of their animal protein came from insects, and most of their protein came from fruits, leaves and such.

Besides, justifying eating meat, wich nowadays is done buy going to the supermarket or a butcher to people hunting to survive is, sorry if I sound aggressive, beyond ridiculous. The context is so different, you can't compare both, you can't compare a situation of survival to eating meat 3 times a day !

And hunting/fishing is horrible because it makes beings suffer and eventually die. If suffering and death are not horrible for you, I wonder what could be.
 

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As for population control, there are other methods beside killing them.
(and we should also ask ourselves how the carps came in a place where they never would have come by themselves...)
 

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Also, there's a big big difference between the way we farm animals in factories and people hunting and fishing to survive.

Check out this video, it might give you some insight into standard farming practices today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32IDVdgmzKA
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

to this i will respond with population control.
Question: Which is the most invasive species in the history of life on this planet?
Answer: Homo sapiens.

In case you don't know what Homo sapiens is, take a look in the mirror. And then think about what can be done to curb the population of this animal that has infested every corner of the globe causing mass extinctions, deforestation, and desertification.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

i have been raised in a country family where hunting and fishing was normal life. But, i am always trying to expand my horizons,so i figured i would ask you guys/gals, why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive?? i would just like some insight from a culture that i don't understand.
What do the actions of our ancestors have to do with modern humans? What else do we find a bit unacceptable did our ancestors do that we don't now? Rape, murder, cannibalism, slavery, etc.

Our ancestors did consume animal products, but can you actually justify the 'literally needed to to survive' part? How far back do you have to go to determine if it's really 'literally needed'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

to this i will respond with population control. asian carp i my part of the country are literally taking over the native species. so, is it wrong to try to irradicate this invasive species??
So do you think it's acceptable to eradicate invasive species?

Humans are an invasive species. Do you feel it's acceptable to eradicate humans? Or is it that humans get a free pass and we can simply put that label on other species and find it acceptable to eradicate them?

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Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

or the fact that deer are so over populated that they reproduce/imbreed, and create a much weaker and more unstable and desiese infested generation of deer which will ultimately suffer much more.
Oh really? Do you have documented, supporting evidence? How is hunting down the larger, stronger members of a species, going to help that? What did the deer do before humans?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fushichô View Post

As for population control, there are other methods beside killing them.
Reason with them until they go away?

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(and we should also ask ourselves how the carps came in a place where they never would have come by themselves...)
I blame the british.

Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive??
Our ancestors didn't have the amazingly productive agricultural system we have - they didn't have as much choice as we have now. I think now that we have other options, it'd be wrong not to take them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by leth View Post

Reason with them until they go away?
That's an efficient one, yes. It just take some time, some boars can actually be quite stubborn. And squirrels too.

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I blame the british.
That is actually my motto. Well, mine is "Blame Sarkozy" since I'm French, but Blame the Brits works just as well.


Edit: typo
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

hello all,

i want to post that i am not trying to ruffle any feathers or pizz anybody off. and i COMPLETELY respect your life decisions.

i have been raised in a country family where hunting and fishing was normal life. But, i am always trying to expand my horizons,so i figured i would ask you guys/gals, why is hunting/fishing so horrible if our ancestors literally needed to to survive?? i would just like some insight from a culture that i don't understand.
Does it really matter that much what our ancestors did to survive? There were probably periods in time where rape was necessary biologically for some small tribes in Africa to survive or something. No modern person would use that as a justification for rape would they?

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Originally Posted by Puppet Master View Post

This forum is for vegetarians or people who are actively working towards being one. That is listed in the requirements you are to read before you even make an account. If you are not already vegetarian or aiming to be one, this is not the forum for you.
I actually feel there should be a section where we're allowed to debate omnis who aren't necessarily friendly... I know not only from personal experience but from various accounts from other people who leaflet or table that many times you can be approached by a hostile person and they can walk away respecting or even embracing vegetarianism.

So bring 'em on. My mind is ready. My body is ready. It's clobberin' time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i have watched all of the meet your meat youtube videos and have realized that they are a horrible thing to watch. but to a meat producer, those videos represent the absolute worst case sinario (sp?). that is not common practice in the livestock circle. farmers raise thier livestock with the utmost care because that is how they make a living.

as for population control, what are some other methods of controlling a herd of overpopulated animals??

again, not trying to ruffle any feathers here. if you want me to leave just say so.

BTW: yall got some really cool smileys
 

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Ya let's go crap in the woods, marry 12 year olds, and die at 30, and let's get those diseases back and not treat them, because after all, it's what happened with our ancestors.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

i have watched all of the meet your meat youtube videos and have realized that they are a horrible thing to watch. but to a meat producer, those videos represent the absolute worst case sinario (sp?). that is not common practice in the livestock circle. farmers raise thier livestock with the utmost care because that is how they make a living.
I've heard the argument that ranchers take good care of their livestock because they would not make a profit if they didn't, and that argument isn't convincing. If someone sees animals as food production units, they won't treat them nearly as well as if they cared about those animals as individuals. I can imagine someone having animals, using them in some ways that did not harm them, and genuinely caring about those animals. But how can someone care at all about an animal they deliberately raise to be killed and eaten? A lot of folks have tried to tell me this is possible but none of them made any sense- so I still don't buy it.

Quote:
as for population control, what are some other methods of controlling a herd of overpopulated animals??
This is a tough one. You could let predatory animals do what human hunters do now- but the herd animals would still be getting killed (just not by humans any more)- so I don't see how the herd animals would be any better off. Some research is being done on immunocontraception darts which temporarily sterilize deer, squirrels, etc, but this is not yet practical on a large scale. They even tried spaying female deer in one area, which I assume worked- but that would be expensive.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh James xVx View Post

Does it really matter that much what our ancestors did to survive? There were probably periods in time where rape was necessary biologically for some small tribes in Africa to survive or something. No modern person would use that as a justification for rape would they?
Yeah, I'm not a caveman. I live in buildings, wear clothes, use modern technology. And I realize that I have a choice of what to eat, rather than being forced into eating whatever happens to be available, like my ancestors. That's why I choose a vegetarian diet that's healthier for me, the animals, and the environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh James xVx View Post

I actually feel there should be a section where we're allowed to debate omnis who aren't necessarily friendly... I know not only from personal experience but from various accounts from other people who leaflet or table that many times you can be approached by a hostile person and they can walk away respecting or even embracing vegetarianism.

So bring 'em on. My mind is ready. My body is ready. It's clobberin' time.
That's actually not a bad idea, as long as it's restricted to its own subforum of VB and not allowed to spread to the existing forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

i have watched all of the meet your meat youtube videos and have realized that they are a horrible thing to watch. but to a meat producer, those videos represent the absolute worst case sinario (sp?). that is not common practice in the livestock circle. farmers raise thier livestock with the utmost care because that is how they make a living.
Translation: "I've never been within 50 miles of a major commercial farming operation, but I've been brainwashed into thinking that most of them are just like the small family owned farms that I've visited/ seen on TV/read about in kiddie books."

Just google the phrase "factory farm", and you'll find plenty more pictures and videos just like that. If you think it's uncommon, you're mistaken.

--Fromper
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by questionmark View Post

so, is it wrong to try to irradicate this invasive species??.
Humans are a much more invasive and destructive species. Every animal born has a right to live, and a purpose beyond being eaten.
 
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