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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am so mad with my flatmate right now. A few days ago at the supermarket she said she was buying some eggs for herself. I don't eat eggs but I'm not about to be righteous about her buying eggs, so I scanned the shelf for the lowest price free range and pointed to them for her. She said "Oh no." and picked up some caged eggs. Cheaper yes, but so wrong and cruel. At the time I bit my tongue, but I was thinking about how much it maddens me each time I see those eggs in the fridge so I decided to say something.
So I said that it's cruel to buy caged eggs and that for a little bit of extra money she could get free range. Then we had a conversation a bit like:
Her: Don't judge me. That's like if someone judged you for not being Christian.
Me: You aren't Christian either. How does not being Christian have anything to do with animal cruelty? Yes, I will judge you because I think buying caged eggs is sick.
Her: So you still can't judge me!
Me: YES I can. Caged eggs are cruel. You can get free range for a couple of dollars more.
Her: I can't afford that!
Me: Oh, but you can afford an iphone? (She bought one this week)
Her: Whatever. I don't care.
Me: It's only a little bit more to get free range instead of supporting animal cruelty.
Her: No I need that for my coffee! Stop judging, I'm not judging you!
Me: You can't be serious. So, what do you have to judge me for?
Her: (clearly can't think of anything she'd judge me for) You need to stop being so perfect!
Me: I'm not, I'm just trying to stop you buying caged eggs.

It went round a little me saying caged eggs are wrong, her calling me judgmental. Pretty certain the icy atmosphere will hang around for a couple of days. Me saying this stuff is very mild since what I actually felt like doing was smashing all her eggs on the floor and telling her to clean up her cruelty, but I realised that might be a bit out of order.
Argh. Just needed to vent all that. She is so unreasonable. She doesn't seem to register how horrible battery farming is.
 

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Free range can be a misleading and poorly regulated label unless one has visited the farm and asked plenty of questions but I suppose it's a step in the right direction. Example: http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

Very sorry you have to see those eggs every time you open your fridge though, it can be tough to see knowing where they come from.
I would have similar feelings if I had to deal with non-vegans in the household but unfortunately, there's only so much we can do in attempts to open their eyes. Hope the tension dissipates. One thought that helps me is that at least I'm doing my best not to contribute to the cruelty and so I'm part of it as little as possible. It certainly would be wonderful if others were more willing to reduce their consumption of animal products though even if it were something small such as skipping the cheese on their baked potato or salad or going for a vegetable stir fry instead of BBQ chicken for one meal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
True, free range doesn't always mean very good standards.

I was texting my boyfriend about the argument with my flatmate. I don't think he likes her anyway. Probably because I tend to talk about her when she's done something to annoy me so he doesn't hear much about the cool fun stuff, whoops. Anyway he said he doesn't think I'll change her mind, and that is pretty true. She is pretty dense about reasonable things like this.
I think I'm going to make myself feel better by throwing my support into the SAFE no cage campaign (http://nocages.org.nz/pepper/nocages/submission) and try to let it blow over with her to get rid of the tension at home.
 

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I think all you can do is give her the facts, what she chooses to do with them is up to her...
I guess the trick is to really make sure she gets the real facts, as up until recently, I know I was blind to a lot of what is going on, and I feel so bad now that I know what is going on, that I never looked into certain things before...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larissa View Post

I think I'm going to make myself feel better by throwing my support into the SAFE no cage campaign (http://nocages.org.nz/pepper/nocages/submission) and try to let it blow over with her to get rid of the tension at home.
Great idea! Can those outside New Zealand fill this out too? I may do it anyway, can't hurt.
 

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My advice: Leave the issue alone for a few days or weeks to let you both cool off a bit. Then try to engage her in a dialogue again by starting a conversation about something you both agree on. Then bring up the egg issue and offer a compromise. Perhaps get her to agree to eating fewer eggs instead of cage-free eggs. Or maybe suggest that you'll stop talking about eggs if she'll come visit a farmed animal sanctuary with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I like that sanctuary idea. I wonder if there is one in my area. I'll look into that.

I posted a couple of links on my facebook, the nocage one and an SPCA one with info about their approved egg brands in NZ. Other friends have liked those so I hope she notices that other people agree with me on this. I can't go too hard on the facebook though, don't want to irritate people by bombarding them with links.
 

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hmm...

I think you should apologize and not because you think caged eggs are right(or because they are), but because you crossed the line between education and harassing another person about their choices. While it's well and fine to have strongly held beliefs you aren't going to win any kind of veg*n award for attacking someone without provocation in the name of saving the animals.

The only person in this world you can control the choices of is you. You can't make someone do what you want, and even if you could it doesn't make you a better person than them, it just makes you a jerk. I'm quite sure most veg*ns didn't get to where they are now by having someone yell at them until they submitted to that person's belief system. Holy lack of tact batman. You didn't even try educating first, really, you just let the rage build up and exploded over something out of the blue, in the eyes of your flatmate. And when someone declares war, you can either let your entire character be smashed into the ground or you can fight back...

Try and picture it from her persective. She is probably angry, defensive, hurt, confused, conflicted and feeling betrayed. And yes, one can turn all the around and say the chickens are suffering more than her, but you didn't save any animals by b*tching your flatmate out in such a grand affair the icy atmosphere will last for days.

I do feel your pain, and how much it sucks when we know things and we can see that other peoples choices are causing harm. But they are choices and the only thing you can do is gently educate and hope that the other person comes around to a more peaceful, thoughtful way of being. That being said, apologise. We are surrounded by people who see the world differently than we do, but judging and pushing people away isn't the best way to handle it. Right now you are doing no good. Try thinking, maybe of ways to better get her to think about switching, like making a weekly trip to the farmers market and buying fresh eggs there, or something.
 

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Originally Posted by Pace View Post

You can't make someone do what you want, and even if you could it doesn't make you a better person than them, it just makes you a jerk...
How about if someone is an abolitionist confronting a slaveholder? I think the abolitionist is a better person than the slaveholder, even if the abolitionist is tactless.

Quote:
Try and picture it from her persective. She is probably angry, defensive, hurt, confused, conflicted and feeling betrayed.
I think that's overdone. I think she was just pissed and defensive that someone confronted her about something that she didn't see a problem with and didn't want to change. I'd save the "hurt," "confused," "conflicted," "betrayed" for being cheated on by a partner something.
 

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Eh. Id be pretty mad if a freind I was sharing a roof with did something like this to me. These were the nicer words
 

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Yeah, I think it would be better to sit down and have a conversation - not at the supermarket - about it.

OP - I'd let things cool a little bit, then get some info together and talk to her about why you feel so strongly about it. Even if she can't be persuaded to care about the animals, she might be able to care that YOU'RE really distressed by the treatment of the animals. And if it means a lot to you, she might be willing to change her behavior.

For example, I know of someone who recycles not because they really care that much about it but because it's important to the people around them.
 

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Originally Posted by Farmrush View Post

I think you handled it in the worst way possible. Well, short of attacking her or something.
Lol, I wish I could like this or something.
 

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Pace and Farmrush are right, that was harsh to her. I understand that you don't like looking at them, and it upsets you, but going off on her the way you did wasn't the best way to handle it. You can't make her choose, you can just educate her. If (and I'm not saying everybody does this) we all went off on omnivores the way you went off on her, that gives them more reason to call us crazy.
 

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Originally Posted by nuddle View Post

I think all you can do is give her the facts, what she chooses to do with them is up to her...
I guess the trick is to really make sure she gets the real facts, as up until recently, I know I was blind to a lot of what is going on, and I feel so bad now that I know what is going on, that I never looked into certain things before...
+1. I think instead of telling people how wrong we think it is that it's better to show them what we've seen and let them come to that conclusion on their own. That way it was "their idea" to stop buying those eggs (and hopefully any eggs at all). I think we are much more likely to win people over this way.
 

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Damn it, this thread has me really angry. People like OP are the reason so many people have a negative opinion of vegetarians and vegans. "Oh, but you can afford an IPhone?" Jesus. If I were your flatmate, I'd be looking for a new place to live.
 

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Well, iPhones are expensive. I know somebody who has no money, and somehow is able to afford a freakin' iPhone (I have a feeling her parents are behind it).
 

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I can sympathise totally. One of my flatmates still buys caged eggs, she's a total scumbag in all aspects of life though and I'll be glad to not live with her anymore (and sorry for infecting the board with negativity, but I need to vent about that one!)

In general though, that is the only person I have met in my 22 years on this planet that I have ever seen buy caged eggs. It's insane, even my parents who are committed animal eaters think caged eggs are bad. I must be alone in having had this drummed into me?
 

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^ I unfortunately know too many people who buy battery eggs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlejackle View Post

Damn it, this thread has me really angry. People like OP are the reason so many people have a negative opinion of vegetarians and vegans. "Oh, but you can afford an IPhone?" Jesus. If I were your flatmate, I'd be looking for a new place to live.
agreed. I know youre passionate about the subject, but that was too far. I would HATE to be judged on what I'm eating like that. If someone laid into me for, I dont know say buying something with palm oil in it (random vegan example), id be pretty pissed off.

If you did want to be all activist, a conversation like "Why are you getting those cheap ones not free range?" "I cant afford it." "Oh Ok, I'll have to show you this video I found on youtube later, it might make you reconsider" could have been better.

ps. maybe the reason she has no money is buying the iphone, haha.
 

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I don't eat eggs but
I'm not about to be righteous about her buying eggs, so I scanned the shelf for the lowest price free range and pointed to them for her. She said "Oh no." and picked up some caged eggs. Cheaper yes, but so wrong and cruel. At the time I bit my tongue, but I was thinking about how much it maddens me each time I see those eggs in the fridge so I decided to say something. You were being passive aggressive in the store. I could see how she felt you were being self righteous as well as controlling after reading the rest of this.

Her: Don't judge me. That's like if someone judged you for not being Christian.
Me: You aren't Christian either. How does not being Christian have anything to do with animal cruelty? (we'll get back to this in a moment...)

Her: Whatever. I don't care. I wouldn't care what you were saying either if you had been brooding for days building up to a disrespectful/disapproving confrontation.

Her: I can't afford that!
Me: Oh, but you can afford an iphone? (She bought one this week) Refer to your own quote a few lines up about Christianity and then imagine it says; "How does owning an iphone have anything to do with animal cruelty?"

Her: No I need that for my coffee! Stop judging, I'm not judging you! You and she are both probably in the situation you are in because you can't afford it on your own realistically, it is nice to save up a little money and buy nice things for yourself in the process.

Me: You can't be serious. So, what do you have to judge me for?
Her: (clearly can't think of anything she'd judge me for) Weird to read. Everyone could be judged for something, in fact we are judging you for this post.

It went round a little me saying caged eggs are wrong, her calling me judgmental. Pretty certain the icy atmosphere will hang around for a couple of days. Me saying this stuff is very mild since what I actually felt like doing was smashing all her eggs on the floor and telling her to clean up her cruelty, but I realised that might be a bit out of order. You were being judgemental. If you had carried out the second part, you would have crossed the line of confrontation into destruction of property, dropped the judging aspect and sailed right into mental.

Argh. Just needed to vent all that. She is so unreasonable. She doesn't seem to register how horrible battery farming is. You seem unreasonable and unrealistic as well as hard on your roommate. You are not registering that as much as the fact that some of her lifetstyle pisses you off, she is helping you out with the bills and confronting her about her diet/choices is just as wrong as if she would confront you about yours or thought about doing nasty things to your food. If you want a vegan roommate, put ads out for a vegan roommate. Otherwise you are going to be struggling to pay your bills if this is how you handle each one. Use this as a learning opportunity, we all make mistakes. I believe you owe her an apology...

I think we need a "Stupid things veg*ns say/do" thread.
 
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