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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/02/climate.change.report/index.html?eref=rss_world" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science...eref=rss_world</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Humans likely to blame for global warming</div>
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...yeah.<br><br>
Who else do you think is to blame? Giraffes? R-ta.... silly people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
heh.... they are 90% sure it's because of humans.<br><br><br><br>
yeah.....
 

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They didn't take into account the alien conspiracy!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nogardsram</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
They didn't take into account the alien conspiracy!</div>
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yeah, we realy need to look into that. lol
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/02/climate.change.report/index.html?eref=rss_world" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science...eref=rss_world</a><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
...yeah.<br><br>
Who else do you think is to blame? Giraffes? R-ta.... silly people.</div>
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I have been watching a lot of programs on global warming and other natural disasters over the course of this planets history. It has made me curious about this report. Don't misunderstand I am not questioning as to whether or not car pollution, garbage, nuclear bomb tests, etc have contributed to global conditions, however I do question if man is completely responsible for global climate change how do we account for the end of the ice age? It's not like there were a lot of humans driving around back then, but all that ice melted and the earth's mean tempature rose.<br><br><br><br>
There is evidence that there have been climate changes throught man's history, yet these were all done without cars, planes and the rest of the pollutants man creates.<br><br><br><br>
I guess the basic question I have is if it is man alone that is causing the changes in the earths climate why has it happened numerous times in the past without our help at all?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>havocjohn</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I guess the basic question I have is if it is man alone that is causing the changes in the earths climate why has it happened numerous times in the past without our help at all?</div>
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"While it is undoubtedly true that there are natural cycles and variations in global climate, those who insist that current warming is purely natural -- or even mostly natural -- have two challenges.<br><br><br><br>
First, they need to identify the mechanism behind this alleged natural cycle. Absent a forcing of some sort, there will be no change in global energy balance. The balance is changing, so natural or otherwise, we need to find this mysterious cause.<br><br><br><br>
Second, they need to come up with an explanation for why a 35% increase in the second most important greenhouse gas does not affect the global temperature. Theory predicts temperature will rise given an enhanced greenhouse effect, so how or why is it not happening?"<br><br><br><br>
From: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/22147/335" target="_blank">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/22147/335</a><br><br><br><br>
The gristmill article actually contains some of the best information available and understandable to the layman - any doubters should read it.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sketchy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
"While it is undoubtedly true that there are natural cycles and variations in global climate, those who insist that current warming is purely natural -- or even mostly natural -- have two challenges.<br><br><br><br>
First, they need to identify the mechanism behind this alleged natural cycle. Absent a forcing of some sort, there will be no change in global energy balance. The balance is changing, so natural or otherwise, we need to find this mysterious cause.<br><br><br><br>
Second, they need to come up with an explanation for why a 35% increase in the second most important greenhouse gas does not affect the global temperature. Theory predicts temperature will rise given an enhanced greenhouse effect, so how or why is it not happening?"<br><br><br><br>
From: <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/22147/335" target="_blank">http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/22147/335</a><br><br><br><br>
The gristmill article actually contains some of the best information available and understandable to the layman - any doubters should read it.</div>
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Again I will reitirate: I have no doubts that man has contributed negativly to the earth's enviroment on many levels; however, historically speaking we have seen that the earth has been warming for many thousands of yrs. After all according to scientists the northern hemisphere was once covered by ice. Yet now we throw out all history and say this is all man's doing. I personally find it rather funny.<br><br><br><br>
Will humans be blamed the next time we have a big earthquake or a volcano blows? After all we have been exploding nukes underground for decades now who's to say that didn't cause some sort of shift in the mantle that will eventually lead to a major earth shift...... remember history doesn't apply in any reasoning anymore.
 

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havocjohn, have you seen 'An Inconvenient Truth'?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nogardsram</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
havocjohn, have you seen 'An Inconvenient Truth'?</div>
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No, is that Gore's movie?
 

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Yes.<br><br><br><br>
It discusses the cycling of ice ages in the film. While I'm not suggesting that this is the only source (or even the best) but it does talk about it and I think does a decent job.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nogardsram</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yes.<br><br><br><br>
It discusses the cycling of ice ages in the film. While I'm not suggesting that this is the only source (or even the best) but it does talk about it and I think does a decent job.</div>
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<br><br><br><i>eta: I am highly skeptical of anything Gore or his wife Tipper endorses though.</i><br><br>
I had already planned on checking it out, just haven't gotten around to it yet.<br><br><br><br>
So I guess the next question then is since man is the sole reason that global climate change is happening (it sure didn't feel like a warming trend this winter in Seattle) what do some of you plan to do?<br><br><br><br>
Do we all stop driving? Do we all stop flying? Do we now go without heat in the winter? Not use electricity to run our homes? Do we give up our pc's? Stop cooking our food? Do we stop using air conditioners and fans in the summer? Does everyone go back to farming and living off the land like the Amish?
 

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It's not that he endorses the film. It's a little about his life as well as it is his presentation that he's been doing for some time.<br><br><br><br>
I think the general scientific community agrees that there are global climate changes without humans. However, based on some evidence, what is happening now is different than what has happened in the past. Humans do have an effect on the environment. Using up aquifers, deforestation, accelerating desertification, etc. It's not that much unreasonable to think that we may be dumping too much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.<br><br><br><br>
Why would we have to give up everything? There are a lot of greener alternatives than say burning coal to generate electricity (and generate heat at the site where the coal is burned), then have someone hundreds of miles away heat their home with electricity.<br><br><br><br>
There are green alternatives one can do to reduce their impact on the environment and avoid mentality of use and waste.<br><br><br><br>
As for driving, people drive way too much right now. At least in the US (I would assume it's not that different in some of the other countries where there are ample cars). There are all sorts of efficiencies which could be done with this aspect.<br><br><br><br>
Flying. People fly too much as well.<br><br><br><br>
Heating: Solar heating, as well as not have so much microclimates in houses. Turn the heat down, etc.<br><br><br><br>
Electricity: Solar electricity, as well as conservation and reduction. People like their lit microclimate controlled comforts too much. There are all sorts of efficient reductions here.<br><br><br><br>
Air conditioners are ridiculous. They've only been around for how long and how long have people occupied the same areas?<br><br><br><br>
The reaction doesn't have to be completely reject everything modern life could/can offer. I think a more correct response would be to be responsible, not gluttonous.<br><br><br><br>
My 2 cents.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>havocjohn</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Again I will reitirate: I have no doubts that man has contributed negativly to the earth's enviroment on many levels; however, historically speaking we have seen that the earth has been warming for many thousands of yrs. After all according to scientists the northern hemisphere was once covered by ice. Yet now we throw out all history and say this is all man's doing. I personally find it rather funny.<br><br><br><br>
Will humans be blamed the next time we have a big earthquake or a volcano blows? After all we have been exploding nukes underground for decades now who's to say that didn't cause some sort of shift in the mantle that will eventually lead to a major earth shift...... remember history doesn't apply in any reasoning anymore.</div>
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Clearly you did not visit the link I posted, it will answer all your questions about history, man, weather, climate, etc... in relation to the topic at hand.<br><br><br><br>
As for fixing the planet, I believe that we are already so far gone that it may be impossible to right the ship at this point, but I do my part to mitigate the effects in the hopes that we (the human race) can slow things down until real solutions can be found.<br><br><br><br>
We are a gluttonous people - we need to stop living for today and worrying so much about convenience as thinking of the future and perhaps accepting a more sustainable lifestyle.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sketchy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
We are a gluttonous people - we need to stop living for today and worrying so much about convenience as thinking of the future and perhaps accepting a more sustainable lifestyle.</div>
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My thoughts exactly. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sketchy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Clearly you did not visit the link I posted, it will answer all your questions about history, man, weather, climate, etc... in relation to the topic at hand.<br><br><br><br>
As for fixing the planet, I believe that we are already so far gone that it may be impossible to right the ship at this point, but I do my part to mitigate the effects in the hopes that we (the human race) can slow things down until real solutions can be found.<br><br><br><br>
We are a gluttonous people - we need to stop living for today and worrying so much about convenience as thinking of the future and perhaps accepting a more sustainable lifestyle.</div>
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actually I did check out the link and the links from that link, maybe I am a little more cynical than some but when people write it is believed or we believe it tends to make me think they are not sure.<br><br><br><br>
I also find it funny that those purposing this position claim people questioning it's validity need to find the natural catalysts even though they themselves don't have definitive answers as to what caused climate changes in the past......<br><br><br><br>
Hey, never claimed man does not have something to do with what is happening for a number of reasons which go beyond burning fossil fuels, yet I find it rather amusing that people so easily dismiss the historical evidence we have about what the planet is capable of without man's help.<br><br><br><br>
I aso think it is funny that people whine about how bad it is yet are not willing to actually do what is neccassary to even come close to slowing things down.<br><br><br><br>
It's kinda like a clogged sink. If you only turn off the hot water the sink is still going to over flow as long as the cold water is running.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>havocjohn</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
Hey, never claimed man does not have something to do with what is happening for a number of reasons which go beyond burning fossil fuels, yet I find it rather amusing that people so easily dismiss the historical evidence we have about what the planet is capable of without man's help.</div>
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This comment and others show a misunderstanding. To my knowledge, no one believes that climate can never change without human intervention. Of course it does, it's a simple fact of the geological record. So no one is "dismissing" anything. The claim that is being made is simply that human activites contribute substantially to global warming. The evidence for that connection is quite strong, from simple theoretical considerations about greenhouse gases and what they do, to empirical evidence of climate change in the last century beyond what can plausibly be attributed to natural cycles.<br><br><br><br>
Your implications that people who are concerned with human-caused global warming do not think the climate can also change for natural reasons is just false.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>troub</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
heh.... they are 90% sure it's because of humans.<br><br><br><br>
yeah.....</div>
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Err. All of the media has been presenting this wrong. They are "greater than" 90% sure that it is caused by humans. There was much debate about wether they should label it as "very likely" or "extremely likely" meaning that 95% sure is probably a better number.
 
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