Fishing

Flurry · Jul 12, 2006

My boyfriend and I were talking... he was saying how he'd love to take me mountain biking and boating... he said he would love to take me fishing at one of the many places to fish around where he lives... then he remembered that I was vegetarian and that I'm against fishing. 
I tried to cheer him up... said that I could go with him fishing and not fish... or you know, have a rod and no bait even, or that he can go fishing with my dad or brother. He said that it wouldn't be the same. 
Ever since our conversation, I've been questioning my decision, and have a few questions. 
Is it as cruel as PETA makes it out to be? PETA said stuff like every fish that is captured has a high chance of dying and that it's extremely tramatizing on the fish. Somehow I don't think this is really the case... and if anyone has any more information, it'd be greatly appreciated. 
It wouldnt hurt me to go once, but what about the fish?

missleigh · Jul 13, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Flurry <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Is it as cruel as PETA makes it out to be? PETA said stuff like every fish that is captured has a high chance of dying and that it's extremely tramatizing on the fish. Somehow I don't think this is really the case...</div>
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While there's no real way for us to know exactly what a fish is thinking or feeling, just imagine how it would feel to have a hook caught in your face after being tricked into eating something. At the very least, you would swim away with an open wound on your face. Maybe I'm being over-simplictic, but that sounds pretty cruel to me.

missleigh · Jul 13, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Flurry <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
Is it as cruel as PETA makes it out to be? PETA said stuff like every fish that is captured has a high chance of dying and that it's extremely tramatizing on the fish. Somehow I don't think this is really the case...</div>
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While there's no real way for us to know exactly what a fish is thinking or feeling, just imagine how it would feel to have a hook caught in your face after being tricked into eating something. At the very least, you would swim away with an open wound on your face. Maybe I'm being over-simplistic, but that sounds pretty cruel to me.

Vegania · Jul 13, 2006

There's a chapter on "fishing" by Psychologist Joan Dunayer in her book-Animal Equality:Language and Liberation. 
Individual fish-internally have-a brain,central nervous system,internal organs and a pulsating heart beat,the same as you do,only in just a smaller form as individual fish have a smaller body.

Moechalatte · Jul 13, 2006

I believe it does hurt fish when they're caught ... but regardless ... 
I think just the simple fact that this is a "sport" that depends on another animal's ignorance, only to get them caught on a line, look at them, and throw them back to their home makes no sense... What's the point? Why take the chance that you may be hurting them for such a silly "sport?" 
Even if you knew for a fact it wouldn't hurt your cats (or dogs, whatever) for someone to hook them on a line, reel them in, and then toss them off again, would you let them enjoy this "sport" with your pets? If your answer to that is 'no,' then fish shouldn't be treated any differently. 
To be completely honest, I would never go with my boyfriend fishing, even if I didn't fish myself ... I don't even know if I could date someone who enjoyed fishing actually. I think you're being a wonderful girlfriend to even consider sitting with him with a rod in your hand. I hope he realizes how lucky he is to have a veg*an girlfriend who'll do that much for him. 
Just my opinion. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> Hope it helps.

GhostUser · Jul 13, 2006

Fishing sucks. I can't believe I got asked to go fishing last Sunday by people that know me well. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/juggle.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":juggle:"> I won't even 'play' fishing with anyone. I was a downer. Oh well. 
Fish can feel pain I believe.

MZCsmpsns · Jul 13, 2006

I personally find nothing wrong w/going w/him, but not fishing. As long as you're comfortable in the presence of that, I don't see a problem. 
ETA: I think fish do feel pain. They certainly don't look happy when they're pulled from the water.

gas4 · Jul 13, 2006

Have you ever been fishing before? The sight of the poor fish bleeding and writhing in pain, and panic it must feel at being out of the water where it can't breathe, it really sucks.

Irizary · Jul 13, 2006

I'd say if you can sit there happily and watch an animal bleed and suffocate to death, your professed concern for "animal rights" is fairly shallow. Sorry to be so blunt, but think about it. Or go and see how it feels to see someone you care about kill an animal for fun. See how you feel about yourself if you join in. 
The "high chance of dying" likely has to do with damage to the mouth and ability to eat. Imagine getting a large hook through your cheek. 
Fish are fast learners, have long memories, and have pain receptors.

Scythe · Jul 13, 2006

Well, since using hooks offends all the ARAs, you could try dynamite. Then they wouldn't have to imagine all the poor fish lying about dying as if plucked from the water by some great bird and awaiting death. 
But really, I hope you weren't looking for an unbiased answer here. Post it somewhere neutral to the whole veganism/AR thing.

Ludi · Jul 13, 2006

I consider fishing to be a cruel way of catching them. There's no legal way of catching fish for sport that isn't cruel, that I can think of. Can the fishing activity be substituted for another "hunting" sort of sport, such as birdwatching?

CherBear · Jul 13, 2006

If it were me, I wouldn't go. I have a friend from another board (not veggie related) that adores her fish. She actually trains them to do things like push a ball around their tank and they love their fishy treats too. She even posted pictures! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/rockon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":rockon:">

Flurry · Jul 13, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Irizary <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
I'd say if you can sit there happily and watch an animal bleed and suffocate to death, your professed concern for "animal rights" is fairly shallow. Sorry to be so blunt, but think about it. Or go and see how it feels to see someone you care about kill an animal for fun. See how you feel about yourself if you join in.</div>
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My dad fishes and used to duck hunt. I grew up (and am still growing up) around that kind of thing... fishing to me is not "Omigosh POOR FISH! STOP IT NOW!!!" My friends and family already know I feel about it (and don't call my boyfriend a bad person for asking), and there isn't much I can do but sit and pray that they don't catch anything. Just when he asked, that PETA stuff came to my mind and I was curious if it was as true as they said it was. There are even people on here who find PETA a little wonky. 
If I were that shallow, I would have given in already without even asking anyone about anything. Heck, I would have given in a while ago, it would have saved me the ridicule. But hey, if you wanted me to be more hardcore, I guess I could stop every person I see chomping down on a hamburger, dump my omni boyfriend and all of my friends, and go into work screaming about how we shouldn't be serving meat and dairy, throw all of the burgers and ice cream out of the customers hands, slay the brazier guy, quit, set the place on fire, and then have no money to set aside for university, where I want to become a vet technician/assistant. 
Im sorry... it's 10:20 in the morning, and I'm still half asleep. But this was the second time I was looked down upon "for even thinking such a thing" or "not doing this" or "not doing that." One time I asked the guy who runs the animal rights group I'm in, who is with the humane society and who is vegan, for his opinion, and he told me the exact opposite then what people on here told me to do and gave me very very good reasons for doing so. 
I'll screw "fishing"... even "pretending to fish"... he's come a long way animal-rights wise... trust me on that... I'm not going to go into any detail... and he hasn't even been fishing since I met him (which was over a year ago) 'cause he has nobody to go with. 
But yeah, I guess the whole "hook in mouth" would be kind of painful. I remember when I was younger, my dad told me it was just like pulling out a loose tooth, and I didn't find pulling a tooth all that painful. But now I know better. 
And what I was I thinking?! I have pet fish, and I guess they wouldn't like it very much if I hooked them. Even if I'm not planning on killing them and eating them.

Sevenseas · Jul 13, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Flurry <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
But hey, if you wanted me to be more hardcore, I guess I could stop every person I see chomping down on a hamburger, dump my omni boyfriend and all of my friends, and go into work screaming about how we shouldn't be serving meat and dairy, throw all of the burgers and ice cream out of the customers hands, slay the brazier guy, quit, set the place on fire, and then have no money to set aside for university, where I want to become a vet technician/assistant.</div>
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Quite a slippery slope you have there.

bigdufstuff · Jul 13, 2006

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Flurry <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> 
My dad fishes and used to duck hunt. I grew up (and am still growing up) around that kind of thing... fishing to me is not "Omigosh POOR FISH! STOP IT NOW!!!" My friends and family already know I feel about it (and don't call my boyfriend a bad person for asking), and there isn't much I can do but sit and pray that they don't catch anything. Just when he asked, that PETA stuff came to my mind and I was curious if it was as true as they said it was. There are even people on here who find PETA a little wonky. 
If I were that shallow, I would have given in already without even asking anyone about anything. Heck, I would have given in a while ago, it would have saved me the ridicule. But hey, if you wanted me to be more hardcore, I guess I could stop every person I see chomping down on a hamburger, dump my omni boyfriend and all of my friends, and go into work screaming about how we shouldn't be serving meat and dairy, throw all of the burgers and ice cream out of the customers hands, slay the brazier guy, quit, set the place on fire, and then have no money to set aside for university, where I want to become a vet technician/assistant. 
Im sorry... it's 10:20 in the morning, and I'm still half asleep. But this was the second time I was looked down upon "for even thinking such a thing" or "not doing this" or "not doing that." One time I asked the guy who runs the animal rights group I'm in, who is with the humane society and who is vegan, for his opinion, and he told me the exact opposite then what people on here told me to do and gave me very very good reasons for doing so. 
I'll screw "fishing"... even "pretending to fish"... he's come a long way animal-rights wise... trust me on that... I'm not going to go into any detail... and he hasn't even been fishing since I met him (which was over a year ago) 'cause he has nobody to go with. 
But yeah, I guess the whole "hook in mouth" would be kind of painful. I remember when I was younger, my dad told me it was just like pulling out a loose tooth, and I didn't find pulling a tooth all that painful. But now I know better. 
And what I was I thinking?! I have pet fish, and I guess they wouldn't like it very much if I hooked them. Even if I'm not planning on killing them and eating them.</div>
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Way to take that one to a hyperbole. I think what Irizary was saying (and I agree with this) is that you can politely disagree and discourage what your family and friends are doing. Instead you are considering encouraging it by telling them to fish and sitting there with them pretending to do the same cruel practice. 
If this was me I would explain why I don't fish and tell them they shouldn't either. If they refuse to stop, then fine, you've already said your opinion once. However, I would not go hang out with them while they go and shove hooks through the fishes' face.

Vegania · Jul 13, 2006

The hook offends the individual fish,impaled through the mouth on it,not the observer. 
Birds only kill fish for survival-no other option-as the majority of the earth is concreted. 
The people who do "fishing" do it for entertainment and pleasure,unless you are saying Scythe they would starve to death!

queenarmadillo · Jul 13, 2006

I agree with the OP on this one. There are lengths we could all go to to help animals more, and we don't because this is still a society that we have to function in whether we like it or not. If they aren't going to stop fishing, her sitting by watching pains her, but doesnt affect the welfare of the fish at all. 
To answer the original question, yes I believe they feel pain as badly as peta says (although I don't agree with them on a number of issues) and it is not something I would feel comfortable in participating in. One option you could look at (and this is from a long ago memory of a tv programme, so if they made it up please don't think Im mad) is zen fly-fishing. Basically you get the fish to jump out of the water so its still fun and sport and you get to sit by the riverbank and count what you 'catch' with no hook so nothing gets caught or hurt. If you could get your boyfriend to join in with that, then you would save all the fish he would otherwise catch and still be spending time together the way he wants.

isowish · Jul 13, 2006

I think you aswered your own question when you said you were against fishing. I'm glad you've decided not to fish, and I'm sure you'll find other countryside-bonding-activity-style things to enjoy with your boyfriend, like the mountain biking you mentioned. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:">

troub · Jul 13, 2006

fishing is nothing more then hunting. 
if you dont have a problem with hunting then go ahead and fish.

kpickell · Jul 13, 2006

I don't have a problem with hunting or fishing, but I have no need for either activity since I don't eat meat or fish. Hunting and fishing is certainly worlds better than purchasing (factory farmed) meat and fish from a store. So I agree with troub, if you're not ethically opposed to fishing, go ahead and do it and just give the meat to your boyfriend and omni families and save them from having to purchase the much more unethically produced factory farmed meats and fish they would otherwise end up buying. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

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