VeggieBoards banner
1 - 3 of 3 Posts

5,034 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<a href="" target="_blank"></a><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><br><b><br><br>
By Rajeev Syal in London<br><br>
February 10 2003<br><br><br><br>
Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into piscine neurology has concluded.<br><br><br><br>
An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.<br><br><br><br>
The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies collected over the past 15 years.<br><br><br><br>
His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.<br><br><br><br>
Professor Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused nociception - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.<br><br><br><br>
"Pain is predicated on awareness," he said. "The key issue is the distinction between nociception and pain. A person who is anaesthetised in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain. Anyone who has seen a chicken with its head cut off will know that, while its body can respond to stimuli, it cannot be feeling pain."<br><br><br><br>
Professor Rose said he was enormously concerned with the welfare of fish, but that campaigners should concentrate on ensuring that they were able to enjoy clean and well-managed rivers and seas.<br><br><br><br>
Despite the findings of Professor Rose's study, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which has invested heavily in an anti-angling campaign, said: "We believe that fishing is barbaric. Of course animals can feel pain. They have sensitivity, if only to avoid predators."<br><br><br><br>
The Telegraph, London<br><br></b></div>
That "Anglers rest easy" comment is a laugh; what would they care whether Fish feel pain or not? It's not like hunters lose any sleep at night.<br><br><br><br>
And "Pesco-vegetarians" (omnivores who don't eat red meat, Pigs or Chickens) can rest easy too.

8,440 Posts
<span style="font-size:medium;"><b>Fish do feel "pain</b></span><br><br><br><br>
I'll digg up the review of the scientific report at home.<br><br><br><br>
Hes nuts..grrrr

8,440 Posts
Ok, my excuses for the word to word translation.<br><br>
I picked out the most interesting parts from the review from a scientific report.<br><br><br><br><b>Quotes:</b><br><br><br><br>
For: The netherlands institute for Fisheries Research.<br><br>
internet: <a href="" target="_blank"></a><br><br>
Done by: ID-lelystad institute vor animal keeping and animal health.<br><br>
internet: <a href="" target="_blank"></a><br><br><br><br>
Humane killing of ale by electric sedation for slaughter.<br><br><br><br>
With the usual killing methods fish find themselves faced with stress.<br><br>
With ale it seems possible to avoid this stress by sedation by electric current and oxygen reduction.<br><br>
Its a method that is also good usable in daily practice, and gives a fresher ale.<br><br><br><br>
To achieve that a fish experiences minimal stress until the moment of his death, its necessary to make him unconscious before he gets killed and (internally) cleaned.<br><br>
This sedation is very common with agricultural domestic animals.<br><br>
It reduces their suffering and makes them motionless, a important factor in slaughtering.<br><br>
Until recently there where no methods known to sedate fish before slaughter.<br><br>
The current slaughter methods usually don't make the fish unconscious immediately.<br><br>
Some of these methods are even discussed, like the traditional salt-bath of ale.<br><br>
This method exists of a box of ale witch is sprayed with salt, witch leads the animals to move heavily and curl and move over each other for a long time.<br><br>
Plus point for the fish-processor is that the fish de-slimes but unconsciousness is not the case.<br><br>
Other methods like under-cooling or freezing seem to cause a lot of stress before unconsciousness appears.<br><br>
The slaughter process starts often before the animals are (truly) unconscious.<br><br><br><br><b>immediate unconsciousness</b><br><br>
In the research for a humane sedation method for ale is the following general starting point handled." To avoid stress, must before slaughter an immediate state of unconsciousness been provoked, that lasts until the animal has died."<br><br>
This starting point has been lead from the European guideline for the slaughter of agricultural domesticated animals.<br><br><br><br>
Other article same author and same subject.<br><br><br><br>
Sedation means that effective brain activity is switched off(the animal is unconsius).<br><br>
A sedated animal can still have hart function and other organs working.<br><br>
In a state of unconsciousness the animal is not capable to experience signals from the body or its surroundings.<br><br>
To measure the unconsciousness of fish can be done by measuring the electric activity in the brain, with an EEG.<br><br>
When the fish goes into unconsciousness significant changes in brain activity can be seen.<br><br>
The moment of death cannot be easily measured or established.<br><br>
4-The killing.<br><br>
In daily practice fish are slaughtered by removing of the inner parts (stripping)<br><br>
Literature shows that a number of killing methods do not meet the starting point of our research.<br><br>
Methods that could meet our starting point are:<br><br>
- blow on the head, in witch case a machine has to be used. A blow with an object by hand is (mostly) not effective (the first time)<br><br><br><br>
It is known that the way warm blooded animal are killed can be of great influence on the quality of the meat.<br><br>
In breaded fish this relation has been limited researched.<br><br>
Its been proven that stress can influence the structure of salmon-file in a negative way.<br><br>
in 1997 was research started with support of the European economic community for optimising slaughter methods of Atlantic salmon (salmo salar), gold-? (sparus aurata) and ale (anguilla anguilla) with relation to well-being and production quality.<br><br><br><br>
Electric activity can be measured in two ways.<br><br><br><br>
Registration of VER's on the EEG or EEG in combination with SER's<br><br><br><br>
In the EEG reactions on Visual Revoked Responses (VER's) can be seen.<br><br>
The VER's are the last responses that disappear in the brain and in the absence of them the animal is unconscious or dead.<br><br><br><br>
EEG and SER's<br><br><br><br>
On the moment of unconsciousness we have significant changes in the pattern of the EEG. When enough currant is fed through the brain, a grand mal occurs, witch can be registered on the EEG.<br><br>
If reactions on applied pain tickles, the Somatosensoric Evoked Responses (SER's)<br><br>
can not be registered on the EEG, the animal is num. (feeling nothing)<br><br>
The registration of EEG in combination with SER's is a common method to prove the effective sedation of warm-blooded animals.<br><br><br><br>
The humane killing of salmon with a blow on the head seems achievable.<br><br>
Prototype machinery is available but not fully developed.<br><br>
The use of a hollow pipe to hit the brain of salmons is not effective usable because the brain is small and a effective hit is not likely, and therefore can cause stress.<br><br><br><br>
The current method, under cooling, suffocation in air and electric sedation where studied.<br><br>
The results show that a only current of 400ma will do, because VER's immediately disappeared. When fish were placed in ice-water results showed that it took 5 minutes before VER's disappeared. During several minutes there was escaping behaviour, witch shows there was aversion or stress.<br><br>
Suffication in air took about 5 minutes and the animals also showed escaping behaviour.<br><br><br><br>
Living de-sliming of ale (with salt) didn't meet the requirements as in our starting point because VER's even after 10 minutes weren't gone and animals showed a very strong escaping behaviour. Its therefore likely that animals experienced stress in the salt-bath.<br><br>
The under-cooling of ale in ice-water didn't meet requirements as in our starting point. Animals showed strong escaping behaviour and heartbeat was in-regular. The animals were therefore stressed. With ale with a living weight of 758 grams it took more than 12 minutes before unconscious occurred.<br><br>
The use of a cold salt-water bath didn't work because with a water temperature of -20 to -16 Celsius 93 to 20 Fahrenheit it took more than 30 seconds to obtain unconsciousness, as result of the brain being frozen.<br><br><br><br>
In Germany de-sliming ale with salt or ammonia is forbidden by law, when the animal is at conscious. They have to be sedated with electricity or a blow on the head. A blow on the head is not acceptable for the industry because it damages the head (and that doesn't look good in the fish shop)<br><br>
Research showed that the electric sedation as prescribed by German law is not good enough to establish unconsciousness in all fish. (only in 50% of the cases)<br><br><br><br>
- It's possible to sedate breaded fish before slaughter<br><br>
- Sedation of ale can lead to an improvement in the meat quality compared to the use of a salt-bath.<br><br><br><br>
Word of thank to:<br><br>
European Union, Contract FAIR CT97-3127 and the ministry of agriculture and fishery for the financial support.<br><br>
Literature: Is humane slaughter of fish possible for industry? published 2001.<br><br><br><br>
Contact persons:<br><br>
Dr. J.W.(Hans) van de Vis, dutch institution for fishery research (RIVO)<br><br><a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><br>
Dr. E (Bert) Lambooij, institution for animal keeping and animal health ltd (ID-Lelystad) <a href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><br><br><br><b>end-quote</b><br><br><br><br>
Both are doctors and have/are connections/connected to the agricultural university in Wageningen, The Netherlands.
1 - 3 of 3 Posts