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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'd been without ANY form of dairy for a week, but tonight I got this huge craving for ice cream and I wolfed it down. And I was sooo close to going to the store and just getting some Rice Dream or Soy Dream ice cream, but I didn't have any cash and I didn't want to use my debit card, so I just thought "well, I've been good..." GRRRR. Plus the fact that I've started getting massive stomach aches and skin reactions from dairy, which is why I cut it out in the first place. I make myself so mad sometimes. I really don't expect any responses to this, I'm just venting my own frustration at myself. But I think I'll go to be early, then tomorrow will be another day to make it up.
 

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Can I be mean?

Ok

Scenario:

There you are surrounded by friends. your food in front of you. No place to sit, standing on hard concrete floor in your own excrement. It hot, you get injections, what seem like daily. You have children but you haven't seen them in a long time. Your utters are sore. You have been getting the $#*! milked out of you, for you don't know how long. You are probably never going to see you children again, and your life will no doubt be shortened. Sweet dreams.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegan Joe View Post

There you are surrounded by friends. your food in front of you. No place to sit, standing on hard concrete floor in your own excrement. It hot, you get injections, what seem like daily. You have children but you haven't seen them in a long time. Your utters are sore. You have been getting the $#*! milked out of you, for you don't know how long. You are probably never going to see you children again, and your life will no doubt be shortened. Sweet dreams.
Um? Lame? It's not like the cows are a) human ("friends" "children") or b) know anything different. What we should really be telling her is that dairy is not healthy. Everyone like totally knows cows are abused and whutevar. That was not encouraging at all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkibbles View Post

It's not like the cows are a) human ("friends" "children") or b) know anything different. What we should really be telling her is that dairy is not healthy. Everyone like totally knows cows are abused and whutevar. That was not encouraging at all.
Cows have friends. I don't know why you think they don't.

Not everyone knows "cows are abused and whutevar" - lots of people on this site don't know that.

I personally don't think "health" is the strongest (or necessarily even a strong) argument for being vegan. Most people on successful health food diets "cheat" and have an unhealthy thing now and then. Vegans who do it for ethical reasons don't tend to consciously "cheat" on their ethics.
 

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it can be tough when you are first making the switch. its probably a good idea if you think you might eat dairy at home in a moment of "weakness" this early in your vegan walk to just clean out the fridge and cupboard. no dairy ice cream in the fridge means no wolfing down ice cream. get yourself some soy icecream and you'll never look back.
 

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Slip-ups are the worst, but everyone has had them. Like Koalaborg said, removing the normal ice can cream can help you not eat it. If it's not there, it can't tempt you. And having a stock of soy ice cream always helps.
 

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My house is 4/5 full of omni food. I refuse to obsess over it. I have no desires to go back. I am doing what I really want to do. I use to come home and 80% of my food was prepared for me. Now I prepare most all my food. I never promise myself what I will be. I only know what I am today.
 

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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Cows have friends. I don't know why you think they don't.
What happens in farm factories is inhumane, barbaric and disgusting. I do not discuss that.

However, we should stop anthropomorphising animals. Friendship is a human concept and we do not know yet if it applies to animals as well...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkibbles View Post

Um? Lame?
Um not.

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What we should really be telling her is that dairy is not healthy.
Not the best argument out there.

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Everyone like totally knows cows are abused and whutevar.
Evry1 like totally does not like know like about like yeah.
 

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Originally Posted by LeguMan View Post

Friendship is a human concept and we do not know yet if it applies to animals as well...
Do you think capacities for emotion and attachment suddenly began only at the stage when humans evolved, that humans are so distinct in that way from every other sentient being on the planet? I think that's an extremely arrogant viewpoint.
 

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Originally Posted by Irizary View Post

Do you think capacities for emotion and attachment suddenly began only at the stage when humans evolved, that humans are so distinct in that way from every other sentient being on the planet? I think that's an extremely arrogant viewpoint.
Yes, I think so. And that's not the only thing that single humans out... The capacity to destroy one's environment is another too. And by the way, I think that pasting all our emotions and concepts on other beings is pretty arrogant as well. We have not the monopole of what is the truth...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Okay, stop turning this thread into an argument! Vegan Joe: I don't think that's the best way to encourage someone, I completely understand the cruelty that goes on in places like that, and I am against it. But everyone else: I don't have paper thin skin, and I'm not horribly hurt by his lack of sensitivity!

Just to put my two cents worth in here, I'm positive that friendship isn't just a human concept. I've owned horses all my life, and there is definately a "friend" tendency in them. Horses that go to shows a lot sometimes get what's called "buddy sour," and if you don't bring their buddy or something that smells like them (we put a saddle of another horse's in the next stall at shows so that my horse can still smell him), they freak out.

HOWEVER, even though I still "humanize" animals a lot, I do think it's important to remember that animals are not humans. Animals have feelings, they have emotions, but I don't think they can rationalize them as much as humans do. I may be wrong. None of this changes how I feel about animal cruelty and how much I wish to stop it. Whether or not animals can rationalize there feelings doesn't mean they should be mistreated.

Okay, lecture's over. Hopefully this thread's disagreement is over.

BTW, it's a new day, and I'm feeling much better! And my dog is begging for a walk, so I'd better go!
 

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Sorry SOFcowgirl! I didn't want to turn this into an argument...
At least, there's one thing we all belive in: animal cruelty is wrong and should be stopped at all costs.

I hope you're getting better very soon and that you manage to gain some weight.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeguMan View Post

Yes, I think so. And that's not the only thing that single humans out... The capacity to destroy one's environment is another too. And by the way, I think that pasting all our emotions and concepts on other beings is pretty arrogant as well. We have not the monopole of what is the truth...
The Western attitude about other species has been overtly anthropocentric, likely influenced by Cartesian ideas of non-humans as mere machines. This shows in e.g. the fact that (where I live) Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson's book When Elephants Weep won some award for the year's most nonsensical/pseudoscientific book. "Scientists" are doing experiments where they discover that -- oh noes -- dogs have emotions.

In the context of this kind of attitude, to insist that we should stop anthropomorphizing animals seems pretty weird; and in a context where more and more non-human cognitive abilities are discovered by ethology, it seems pretty arrogant/overconfident to say that you know that animals lack this or that ability.
 
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