I feed my cats both Wellness and Pet Guard. Neither uses by products. Both are more expensive than the grocery store food but are of better quality. Hopefully, by doing this, it will help avoid major health problems as they age.
This is interesting. My husband, son and I will be moving in the next few months, into a home! We will be adopting animals and I plan on feeding our dog vegan. I just ordered a book from AFA online bookstore, (<a href="http://www.veganbooks.safeshopper.com" target="_blank">www.veganbooks.safeshopper.com</a> ) Vegetarian Dogs. I think that commercial dogfood has the potential to cause more harm then good for a dog. It is basically highly proccessed waste and by-products (along with diseased animal parts, euthanized animals and roadkill ). If my dog were to kill something in the wild, so be it, he/she could enjoy the meat. But that rarely happens. If someone were to give my dog a piece of meat, I wouldn't scream and cry ( as long as it wan't ground beef ) . I am also planning on having a cat, but would not have a carnivorous animal on a solely plant-based diet. I would prefer though, to buy meat that is more "organic".<br><br><br><br>
Just like with kids, know what you're doing, read up on the subject and make sure they're healthy.
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by Tarzana</i><br><br><b>I feed my cats both Wellness and Pet Guard. Neither uses by products. Both are more expensive than the grocery store food but are of better quality. Hopefully, by doing this, it will help avoid major health problems as they age.</b></div>
You may want to double check the ingredients on both of those. I believe they both contain 'human grade' chicken, fish, beef, and pork.
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>RedViking</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's surprising to see all the different reactions you all have. I agree closest with epski. Veganism is morally correct, period... There's no point in feeding cats at another animal's expense, you are doing no overall favor to the animal kingdom. I checked out that Halo foods site but they don't have any regular pellet food, nevermind vegetarian food.<br><br><br><br>
So you would (not even risk, but) ruin a cow's health, in order to give your cat some extra nutrition? This is clearly because you are more emotionally connected to your cat, and you are thinking more about what would be best for you. We need to treat all animals equally.<br><br>
If my cat hadn't been in a shelter which euthanizes animals which it cannot place, I wouldn't have adopted her. But I definitely hear you about not wanting to sacrifice another animal for a pet. I had four gerbils I had adopted from another shelter a few months before, and I even observed her reaction to two of them in their cage (I didn't give her a chance to actually touch them) because I was looking for a cat who had little drive to hunt. I kept the door to the gerbil room shut anyway, and she stays inside the house for her protection and the birds', just to be safe.<br><br><br><br>
The commercial dry food I give my cat is made of both grains and meat. I'm almost vegan, but my folks are omni- and whenever they have meat leftovers they don't want to eat or save, I give them to my cat. Sometimes I try to rationalize this by considering that the comparatively small amount of meat she eats (she's only 14 lbs, and my vet told me to cut back a bit on her food to get her weight down a little) doesn't make that much difference to the meat industry. It's not like the impact I would have had if I had been omni all these years- I eat a lot, and will probably live for quite a few years longer.<br><br><br><br>
Still, this issue bothers me too.
This is an issue I think about every time I open a can of cat food, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to try to convert a cat to a vegetarian diet. Just because humans can survive on a strictly plant-based diet, doesn't mean the same for other species. I hate the idea of giving my cats meat, but I'm afraid of the consequences to their health if I don't. <sigh>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>epski</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Tom! I know you've been around (some), but I haven't seen you in ages. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hi.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hi:"></div>
Yep! This is a big, active site, and it's easy to lose track of people. (Thank you, Michael, for the function that lets us find posts by a member...)<br><br><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/hi.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":hi:"> right back atcha. I hope your movies are doing well.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, anyone considering a veg*n diet for their dog should research supplementing l-carnitine and taurine. As for Vegedog, I see they are now adding taurine but not l-carnitine. Anyway, I have a decade-or-so-long grudge against them because they knew lack of those amino acids could cause problems in some dogs but chose not to share that info with the folks buying their product back then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/furious.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":furious:">
Hmm. To me the only question that's important is whether or not dogs or cats can be healthy on a veg*n diet. If the answer is yes, nothing else matters. It's like when people use arguments like "veganism obviously isn't natural because you have to supplement" or "if you lived 100 years ago/in the himalyas/etc you wouldn't be able to be vegan" about vegan diets in people. My response is, who cares? As long as I can be vegan and healthy in my current life and situation, then I will do it.<br><br><br><br>
The whole idea of it being bad to "force" veganism on pets is just silly to me. Like others have pointed out, we force so much on our pets that they would never choose themselves. For example, my cat has demonstrated again and again that she would choose to scratch up my living room rug, yet I attempt to force her to scratch on her turbo scratcher instead. This is purely selfish of me, yet I don't think I'd be seen as an abuser for it. So having a pet do something it would not choose independently can't be inherently wrong. It seem to me that those who are uncomfortable with the idea of "forcing" animals to do something are the ones who should not have pets--to have freedom from being forced into anything, cats and dogs would have to be feral.<br><br><br><br>
So it all comes down to that first question. The main issue that tends to come up wrt cats is taurine. But most "meat" cat foods are supplemented with synthetic taurine because there's not enough in it naturally. Vegan foods can just as easily be supplemented with the same exact synthetic taurine.
I think a veg*n diet can be healthy for dogs, but not for cats. My cats eat Trader Joe's premium cat food. It's only a tiny bit more expensive than other cat foods, and at least it doesn't have poultry by-product in it (i.e. ground up male chicks <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/bigcry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="">)
I've researched the issue and have read that absolutely everything a cat requires (including taurine) can be provided in a vegan diet. The only brand I've seen listed as one that actually includes all that stuff in one simple food is Evolution brand.<br><br><br><br>
Does anyone have good evidence that cats cannot or will not be healthy on such a diet? Or does anyone have evidence that they can (e.g., their cat has been on one for many years and is healthy)?
I researching this a little for my own cats, as they recently developed a bizarre interest in refried beans and soygurt, and the only really positive testimonials I can get are on the product website themselves [Vegecat]. They are compelling in their own way, with beautiful pictures of supposedly vegan cats and their stories. They're certainly at a much healthier weight than my fat little fools.<br><br><br><br>
One of the catch-22s here is that they can't test the products on cats in any "accepted" way, since that would constitute animal testing, and the people that support vegan catfood aren't going to get anywhere near it.<br><br><br><br>
And of course the constant problem, with cat health AND human health: conventional catfood manufacturers are in bed with vets, making sure that the standard party line about cat nutrition is heavy on what those foods contain.<br><br><br><br>
Yes, it is hard to feel that any position is both well-informed and impartial.<br><br><br><br>
What I have read about vegan diets for cats specifically addresses many of the arguments that are heard (e.g., it's unnatural, it's wrong to make that choice for your cats, cats will go blind without taurine), so I'm pretty unmoved when I hear any of those arguments again.<br><br><br><br>
But I'm still wary of the other side as well, probably just because the 'cats can't be vegan' side seems so passionate. Then I think that I shouldn't let that sway me, as many pro-omni people (for human diets) can be very passionate in their 'animals are here for us to eat' or 'you won't have enough protein without meat' arguments.<br><br><br><br>
Emotion and passion aside, the 'cats can be vegan side' is ahead so far.
Yeah, I think that [as with vegan diets for humans] those tired old lines about taurine etc. wear thin for those who have been devoting A LOT of energy to addressing just those health issues. I mean, there are certainly quacks and wingnuts out there, but I find it very implausible that this company would want to make a product that would kill or harm cats. Vegecat addresses the problem of taurine directly, and nowhere on their website or indeed any vegan-petfood website I've seen suggests that you should just feed them lentils and walk away. They require constant monitoring, just as we do with our diets, and just as we would with a "conventional" petfood. If my cat lost a lot of weight, demonstrated a lack of energy, was nauseous or didn't eliminate properly, I'd want to examine her diet no matter what my "human agenda" was.<br><br><br><br>
What was particularly alarming about the knee-jerk return to conventional petfoods is the list of horrid ingredients that gets thrown in there. Tell me THAT'S natural...tumours, styrofoam....oh man....
If I ever find a reasonable source of Vegecat I am going to try to introduce it to them, very slowly, and I'll let everybody know what I find out. No way am I playing roulette with my little guys. We'll see whether they even WANT it, first of all. But they did lose their minds over the refried beans....natural? unnatural?
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