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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to get a dog (actually I know my husband plans to get me one next summer, for an anniversary of something sad), but I'm wondering what you feed your dogs? (Or cats, or any non-herbivore pets.) Are you okay with feeding them meat?<br><br>
I know that dogs can't be healthy on a vegetarian diet (at least, I think I know it. If I'm wrong, please tell me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D">), but in the wild, a dog makes a kill as quickly as possible. The prey grew up in natural conditions, had a real chance at its life, and to me, that's just the circle of life. I don't want to buy dog food that uses bits of animals from factory farms, because buying it is contributing to the demand.<br><br><br>
What does everyone here do?
 

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Impeach the gangster
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My dog, who's seven-years old, a spaniel/terrier mix, has never eaten meat, and is quite healthy. I feed her Natural Balance Vegetarian kibble, in moderation. Her food of choice is home made and baked from oatmeal, flour, applesauce, bananas, and ground peanuts. She loves it and can't seem to get enough. She's also keen on Rice Chex. I also share some of the "mock" meats I eat with her: Boca Burger, Tofurkey slices, <i>etc.</i> She enjoys them. I also give her a "pet tab" multi-vitamin.<br><br><img alt="" src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/Capstan/000_0462.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br>
BTW, most domestic dogs, set loose, will scavenge for food, likely from garbage cans, before they'll hunt prey. I'm of the opinion the domestication of dogs has progressed sufficiently that to expect them to instantly return to a wild state is silly.<br><br>
My pooch is doing her part to alleviate the killing of other animals, and I'm very proud of her for the work she's doing.
 

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Dogs are natural omnivores and even scavengers- they are not obligate carnivores. That means, like humans, they do not need to eat any meat whatsoever in order to be healthy.<br><br>
They not only can eat vegan, they thrive on a balanced vegan diet (often with vastly extended life spans). Feeding a dog meat would be, even for an omnivorous owner, animal cruelty if the dog can live more healthfully on a vegan diet.<br><br><br>
Cats have a little more difficulty- particularly male cats who tend to have urinary problems (blockage) if their diets don't yield acidic enough urine.<br><br>
Female cats can usually be fed vegan with no problems (make sure to find a cat-food that is specially formulated with taurine and a few other things they need)<br>
Male cats, you have to watch- they can also be vegan, but you have to test the pH of their urine and adjust their diets accordingly. (Trivial effort, really, if it will prevent some animal suffering).<br><br>
With any cat, though, make sure they are getting Taurine and the appropriate fatty acids (namely arachidonic acid), as well as plenty of vitamins A and B12. Avoid those things which are toxic to cats. And, of course, wet food is far better than dry food.<br><br>
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Herbivorous Urchin
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>dormouse</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084907"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
It's my understanding that dogs can be fed a vegetarian diet, but cats cannot.</div>
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<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vepurusg</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084959"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Dogs are natural omnivores and even scavengers- they are not obligate carnivores. That means, like humans, they do not need to eat any meat whatsoever in order to be healthy.<br><br>
They not only can eat vegan, they thrive on a balanced vegan diet (often with vastly extended life spans). Feeding a dog meat would be, even for an omnivorous owner, animal cruelty if the dog can live more healthfully on a vegan diet.</div>
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These.
 

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My dogs are freegans <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"><br>
That means they eat vegan kibble that I buy and they also eat other things that may not be vegan but are free (like meaty treats received in a gift basket). We give them v-dog mostly (other brands of vegan kibble if we forget to order enough v-dog). Here's one of my dogs with her ball (she's obsessed with balls).<br><br><img alt="" src="http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8311/bellavegandog.png" style="border:0px solid;"><br>
Her name is Bellicose. Bella for short.<br><br>
They actually did a study and compared dog athelets on meat diets to dog athletes on vegetarian kibble. They found no difference in performance. <a href="http://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/news/local/news/general/research-by-une-scientist-shows-dogs-thrive-as-vegetarians/1710403.aspx?storypage=0" target="_blank">http://www.armidaleexpress.com.au/ne...px?storypage=0</a><br><br>
There's also this book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=veggieboards.com-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FSimple-Little-Vegan-Dog-Book%2Fdp%2F1570672431%2Fref%3Dsr_1_sc_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1327024918%26sr%3D8-1-spell" target="_blank">The LIttle Vegan Dog Book</a>, that details how and why dogs can eat a vegan diet. It has recipes for dog food and treats too!<br><br>
Cats are another story. I feed my cats meat.
 

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Research l-carnitine and taurine. Make sure your dog gets enough of these on a veg*n diet. Also research grains and canine cancers, especially lymphosarcoma.<br><br>
I am one of the few (on this forum) that doesn't believe a veg*n diet is optimal for dogs, as much as I would like it to be. My dogs eat a combination of grain-free kibble and meat and I try to get most of their meat from places/people that were just going to throw it out anyway.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084984"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Research l-carnitine and taurine. Make sure your dog gets enough of these on a veg*n diet.</div>
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These are not essential nutrients for dogs, unless they suffer from particular diseases; there's a reason why they aren't typically added to dog food.<br>
That some dog breeds are extremely inbred, they can have more vulnerability to those conditions which can result in deficiencies.<br><br>
Please don't buy inbred dogs- or dogs from breeders in general. If you get a purebred of certain breeds from a shelter, just read up on what kind of diseases they tend to suffer from and be prepared to treat them with supplementation. Generally speaking, it shouldn't be necessary.<br><br>
This no more precludes a vegan diet for dogs than an intolerance of cellulose in some people precludes a vegan diet for humans- it's a case of individual diseases (usually inherited).<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084984"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Also research grains and canine cancers, especially lymphosarcoma.</div>
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Right... you do know that there's more to a vegan diet than grains? I hope...<br><br>
As an efficient staple, though, there's good reason to sprout and ferment some grains for improved digestibility- whether eaten by human or dog.<br><br>
If you eat well, and you feed your dog what you eat (minus a few things that can make him or her sick) you should be O.K.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084984"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I am one of the few (on this forum) that doesn't believe a veg*n diet is optimal for dogs, as much as I would like it to be.</div>
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Good news then! It does seem to be pretty optimal (particularly in old age). Seriously, if you think grains are a big problem (and, particularly unprocessed by microorganisms they seem to be <i>some</i> problem, though probably not a big one), just go easy on the grains.<br><br>
There's no reason you should be feeding your dog store-bought meat kibble, unless you're just doing it to be contrary around other vegans, or avoid controversy among omnivorous friends. :p<br><br>
Yes, there need to be more low-grain/fermented-grain, or grain-free options in the lines of vegan dog foods; that's not a condemnation of a vegan diet for dogs, however- far from it. The same should be said for human diets.<br><br>
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Yep that's me. I feed my dogs meat just to avoid confrontation. Coming from a family of farmers and hunters, while being veg*n myself, never caused any confrontation at all.<br><br>
Lack of l-carnitine and taurine CAN be a problem for mixed breed dogs who are in no way inbred. I do have a bit of experience with this matter. Lack of these amino acids can cause dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs. Not all dogs are able to make their own. I have done quite a bit of research on what to feed dogs, believe it or not.<br><br>
I'm not saying others shouldn't feed their dogs vegan food if that's what they want to do. But no way is it the optimal diet for dogs.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085023"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Yep that's me. I feed my dogs meat just to avoid confrontation. Coming from a family of farmers and hunters, while being veg*n myself, never caused any confrontation at all.</div>
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Confrontation regarding guilt over how you are caring for a dependent is different. There is an element of moral condemnation in this situation, more so than just "you's nuts", or standard defense mechanisms.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085023"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Lack of l-carnitine and taurine CAN be a problem for mixed breed dogs who are in no way inbred. I do have a bit of experience with this matter. Lack of these amino acids can cause dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs. Not all dogs are able to make their own.</div>
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-In sufficient quantities, you mean. I am aware that this can sometimes occur in periods of rapid growth, so it might be expected in very large dogs. It would be interesting to look at where it is a problem, and where it isn't.<br><br>
But even were that commonly the case (which it isn't commonly so in many breeds), the problem with your argument is that those are trivially simple to supplement without resorting to meat-based diets. Exceptions, which can be easily accounted for, do not invalidate the whole - it's a simple problem with a simple solution, and in no ways lessens the benefits of a vegan diet.<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085023"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I have done quite a bit of research on what to feed dogs, believe it or not.</div>
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Then why not formulate something that is both adequate for your dogs and compassionate to other species at the same time? If you assert that you have the knowledge, then why not <i>put it to use</i>?<br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085023"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
But no way is it the optimal diet for dogs.</div>
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You have yet to demonstrate this. Your arguments over very specific points do not apply to a vegan diet which addresses those, and which further provides advantages over meat in other regards. And it still remains that, for most dogs, even existing vegan kibble and roughly constructed diets are perfectly fine and are generally better than a meat-centric diet.<br><br>
There's no reason to believe that the diet you have chosen for your dogs is at all optimal- and it's certainly not optimal for all of the chickens and cows being ground up to produce it. I think you <i>can</i> do better than that. If you don't want to, you are free to make that choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you so much for all of the information. I didn't even realize that any dogs could be vegan.<br>
And um, I also want to say sorry *embarrassed* I should have realized this might be a heated topic, I didn't mean to cause any arguments!<br>
Thanks again for the info.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"> I have a lot of research to do now!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jilliorna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085080"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
And um, I also want to say sorry *embarrassed* I should have realized this might be a heated topic, I didn't mean to cause any arguments!<br>
Thanks again for the info.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":up:"> I have a lot of research to do now!</div>
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That's OK, Wolfie's the odd one out. He or she is just being excessively cautious (beyond the point of perfectly healthy dog food formulations which have been used for many years).<br><br>
If you want to be super careful, you can buy both of those amino acids (Taurine and L-carnitine) and use them to supplement during your dog's most crucial growth and development phases. I think tempeh is high in carnitine, too, but you'd have to check on that. Even more than carnitine, Taurine supplementation really doesn't seem to be necessary (nearly all dogs that are not eating fresh meat are not eating Taurine, as the processing in dog food renders it virtually missing and unlike cat food it is not typically added back in because dogs simply do not seem to need it).<br><br>
Let us know what you figure out! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
.
 

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adapt. evolve. become
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I'd feed our dog veg if it were up to me, but my mom buys dog food with meat.<br>
She even wanted to get the rats on meat again (I've cut meat out their diet a year before going veg myself) but I was able to convince her not to. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br>
I found it weird that when I ate meat, it didn't matter if they did or not, but now that I don't it suddenly matters. o.e<br>
I'm guessing it was because I did it for their health back then, and not ethical reasons...
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jilliorna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3084900"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I want to get a dog (actually I know my husband plans to get me one next summer, for an anniversary of something sad), but I'm wondering what you feed your dogs? (Or cats, or any non-herbivore pets.) Are you okay with feeding them meat?</div>
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dogs are great. what kind of dog, where are you planning on getting him/her from?<br><br>
as others have said, dogs can do great on vegetarian diets. some dogs a vegetarian diet is even recommended by vets due to certain allergies to animal proteins, the Avoderm vegetarian dog food is marketed as a choice for dogs with allergies.<br><br>
dogs, similar to humans have different issues when it comes to digesting foods. yes, grains can be harmful to some dogs, similarly grains can also be harmful to some humans, however not all dogs need to avoid grains just because some dogs have issues with them. also some dogs have allergies to certain foods that others do not have.<br><br>
i have 4 dogs all different breed mixes from ages 4-13, all in great health. they eat a high quality kibble (Halo) that has wild salmon, and a mixture of brown rice (or oatmeal), avocado and sometimes eggs we get from the neighborhood chickens. i also bake them treats with rice flour, peanut butter, applesauce and molasses. one of them, Buster, likes apples and pears so he gets left over pieces of those sometimes.<br><br>
i recently read that Halo will be introducing an all vegetarian kibble soon, im really happy with this brand and will try out the veggie kind as soon as it hits the markets.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luvourmother</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085506"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
as others have said, dogs can do great on vegetarian diets. some dogs a vegetarian diet is even recommended by vets due to certain allergies to animal proteins, the Avoderm vegetarian dog food is marketed as a choice for dogs with allergies.<br><br>
dogs, similar to humans have different issues when it comes to digesting foods. yes, grains can be harmful to some dogs, similarly grains can also be harmful to some humans, however not all dogs need to avoid grains just because some dogs have issues with them. also some dogs have allergies to certain foods that others do not have.</div>
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Very well said! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
I'll have to look into Halo, that's great that they're making a vegetarian kibble! There definitely needs to be more selection out there.<br><br>
About your dog treats though... how do you keep from eating them all yourself? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":D"> They sound delicious!
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luvourmother</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085506"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
i also bake them treats with rice flour, peanut butter, applesauce and molasses.</div>
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Those sound like the treats I bake for my horse <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
I did a bit of research and I found a vegan brand called v-dog. Here's a link: <a href="http://v-dogfood.com/" target="_blank">http://v-dogfood.com/</a><br><br>
The type of dog I want to get is an English bulldog, for a number of reasons I think that's the perfect breed for me/my family <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">. Plus they are SO cute. We will be getting him/her from the rescue network for that breed in our area.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jilliorna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085651"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I did a bit of research and I found a vegan brand called v-dog. Here's a link: <a href="http://v-dogfood.com/" target="_blank">http://v-dogfood.com/</a></div>
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Wow, that looks excellent! Their new formulation sounds amazing too.<br><br>
And, they address the silly naysayers' concerns totally:<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Important Ingredients<br><br>
V-dogfood has both taurine and L-carnitine, two amino acids essential for several large breed dogs to prevent the "possibility" of cardiomyopathy.</div>
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To said silly naysayers: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p"><br><br><br>
Seems far better than any of the standard brands of meat based dog food.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jilliorna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085651"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
The type of dog I want to get is an English bulldog, for a number of reasons I think that's the perfect breed for me/my family <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">. Plus they are SO cute. We will be getting him/her from the rescue network for that breed in our area.</div>
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I don't know very much about the breed, but as long as he's a rescue, that's fantastic <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
It's so great that you've looked into this.<br>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>jilliorna</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085651"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Those sound like the treats I bake for my horse <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br>
I did a bit of research and I found a vegan brand called v-dog. Here's a link: <a href="http://v-dogfood.com/" target="_blank">http://v-dogfood.com/</a><br><br>
The type of dog I want to get is an English bulldog, for a number of reasons I think that's the perfect breed for me/my family <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">. Plus they are SO cute. We will be getting him/her from the rescue network for that breed in our area.</div>
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V-Dog has crap ingredients. Dick van Patten's Natural Balance vegetarian formula (actually it is vegan) is a better choice if you want a veg dog food. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Wolfie</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3085784"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
V-Dog has crap ingredients. Dick van Patten's Natural Balance vegetarian formula (actually it is vegan) is a better choice if you want a veg dog food. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"></div>
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Thank you, I will look into that one as well <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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I give my dog and cat Taste of the Wild Kibble, as well as partial raw(raw chicken,turkey necks, beef ribs, raw egg etc). Vegan diet for a dog? cats and dogs are predominantly meat-eaters, a dog's dietary needs aren't remotely similar to a humans. Technically they are carnivores, and the notion that they are <i>true</i> omnivores like bears, and rats has always seemed silly to me, every last one of their teeth are sharp and pointed, meant for tearing flesh, not chewing cud, no flat molar like teeth in sight, (unlike bears who have quite a few flat, molars meant for chewing plant matter), a short digestive tract, acidic saliva, the whole nine yards, not to mention whenever Chocolate gets hold of a broccoli or carrot it always comes out whole and undigested, whereas meat is always broken down and utilized completely.<br><br>
if you want a pet that doesn't eat meat than why didn't you opt for a rabbit,hamster,mouse, bird,land tortoise, iguana etc? If you had the dog/cat before you went veg, then as a responsible owner your just going to have buckle down and continue feeding him a proper diet for the duration of his life, and do the dogs a favor and opt for a hamster next time around. Throwing a rock in the oven won't turn it into a cookie just as feeding your dog bread and peas won't turn him into an herbivore -_-
 
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