VeggieBoards banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is it really ethical?<br><br>
I personally have an ethical problem any time any human being decides that an animal should die and especially if those reasons rest upon whether or not the animal can fit into human society or, even worse, if the animal's antisocial behaviors are rooted in the trauma the animal experienced at the hands of humans.<br><br>
Case in point, an animal that was nearly euthanized because it was antisocial and deemed unable to rehabilitated: <a href="http://www.godvine.com/Meet-the-Scared-Dog-That-Only-Wanted-a-Hug-1087.html" target="_blank">http://www.godvine.com/Meet-the-Scar...-Hug-1087.html</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,067 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JoBravo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093004"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is it really ethical?</div>
</div>
<br>
No.<br><br>
Unless an animal is so "anti-social" that is shoots acidic venom up to 8 meters away towards anyone trying to approach or feed, it can't really be called euthanasia, as the death won't be a happy release from suffering, but a testament to humans' lack of finding a way to work with difficult animals.<br><br>
We don't "euthanize" anti-social humans either, except in very backwards countries like the US.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
889 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093009"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No.<br><br>
Unless an animal is so "anti-social" that is shoots acidic venom up to 8 meters away towards anyone trying to approach or feed, it can't really be called euthanasia, as the death won't be a happy release from suffering, but a testament to humans' lack of finding a way to work with difficult animals.</div>
</div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,293 Posts
It's definitely not in line with my ethics. I don't think we should be allowed to "play God" and decide when any living creature dies, human or not. If we put humans down in a similar manner, an ASBO would be a lot more terrifying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I have been involved with dog rescue for the last few years and I must say this is a difficult one.<br><br>
Some dogs that are taken on by dog rescues are very hard to rehome. Some are likely to kill small dogs, cats etc.<br>
If a dog is seen as a real potential danger to the public and has attacked or even killed other animals, what can the dog rescue do.<br>
They cannot rehome the dog with a clear conscience and can't afford to keep the dog in one of their kennels forever.<br><br>
They don't have the resources to look after an un-homable dog forever. I once had to say goodbye to a dog who I had befriended for a year in kennels. But they could never be re-homed with a clear conscience.<br><br>
She was so gentle and lovely around people but she nearly killed a smaller dog at the dog rescue.<br><br>
It wasn't safe for volunteer dog walkers to walk her any more. If she ever got off lead she would be likely to kill something.<br>
So what can you do in that situation. It is so cruel to keep a dog confined in a kennel it's whole life and at the same time that one kennel space could be helping many other dogs in need. Also the longer they are confined to a kennel the worse the behavioural problems get.<br><br>
The sad thing is that humans cause most of the behavioural problems etc in dogs and let their dogs down. Then the dog ends up paying the ultimate price for it's human `guardian' failing them. But to these people their dogs are just disposable anyway and they will just get themselves another dog and do exactly the same again.<br><br>
It makes me very angry, but people will be selfish and ignorant. It doesn't effect their day or their life, so who cares, that seems to be the attitude anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,850 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ShelterHelper</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093367"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
If a dog is seen as a real potential danger to the public and has attacked or even killed other animals, what can the dog rescue do.</div>
</div>
<br>
Walk it with a muzzle? Walk it with two leads and collars? I do that with my sibes as if a snap comes loose, they will run and run and run.<br><br>
I have had a couple so-called "unadoptable" dogs. They can be rehabilitated with enough time and patience. And if you still have doubts, that's where the muzzle comes in if they are off private property. If we "euthanize" every dog that doesn't like cats or smaller animals, we'd be killing a whole lot of dogs. I am one of those rare people who thinks most human-biting dogs can be fixed too.<br><br>
Personally I'd rather see the human who screwed up the dog in the first place be the one euthanized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I understand where you are coming from. My own dog was terrible around other dogs when I first got her. But now she lives with another dog.<br>
So I realise dogs can change if given time, patience, stability and lots of work.<br><br>
No other rescue was prepared to take this dog on to begin with so that's why this rescue took her in and did all they could.<br>
All of the things that you mentioned above were used with this dog. She was a very powerful girl.<br>
Double leaded, muzzled etc by volunteer dog walkers of which I was one.<br>
The problem comes when someone rehomes the dog and then gets comfortable and removes the muzzle.<br>
Then the public may be in danger.<br><br>
Homes that are willing to put work into a dog are very few and far between.<br>
Most people that want to rescue a dog have a shopping list of exactly what dog they would like to rescue.<br>
Some people have an open mind as to the dog they want. But mostly they will ask for a specific colour, breed, good with dogs, kids etc etc.<br>
It's great that these people want to adopt a dog rather than going to a breeder. But many dogs just get overlooked. Even dogs with great temperaments but not the looks people want get overlooked. If they have behavioural issues on top of not looking the right way, they are very hard to re-home.<br><br>
I personally loved her to bits and was distraught when the rescue put her to sleep.<br>
They didn't take the decision lightly though. No-one could foster her as everyone already had dogs, there was no interest in her at all actually in over a year in kennels.<br><br>
Most of the dogs this particular rescue would take on were very hard to home dogs.<br>
Mostly saved from the pound when due to be put to sleep.<br>
They were the last resort for the dogs when nobody else thought they would be able to rehome them.<br>
So many of the dogs had issues that were worked on. These dogs alone were very hard to re-home.<br>
So try to re-home a dog that always has to wear a muzzle and is likely to kill any small dog that she sees.<br>
What if she escapes from the garden one day. Dog rescues have these responsibilities on their heads too.<br><br>
I truely hate the fact that people let these dogs down and ultimately the dog suffers.<br>
The person who has failed the dog just gets to carry on with their life like nothings happened.<br>
The person doesn't have to be locked away in a concrete kennel every night with nobody there to comfort them.<br>
The person isn't the one who has to end the poor dogs sad life.<br><br>
Dog rescues only have so much space. No matter how you put it, it is a numbers game.<br>
They can only rescue as many dogs as resources alow.<br>
If they have one dog in a kennel for it's entire life that might stop them saving another 20 dogs while that kennel space is taken up.<br>
It's a horrible situation but sadly that's the world we live in.<br>
They have to turn down pleas for help every day from dog wardens trying to find rescue spaces for their dogs.<br>
It's just a constant battle for dog rescues to cope with the sheer numbers of dogs involved.<br><br>
I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but I do know that it is never black and white.<br>
Dog rescues are forced to make horrible decisions every day. Decisions nobody should ever have to make.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,658 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JoBravo</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093004"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is it really ethical?<br>
I personally have an ethical problem any time any human being decides that an animal should die and especially if those reasons rest upon whether or not the animal can fit into human society or, even worse, if the animal's antisocial behaviors are rooted in the trauma the animal experienced at the hands of humans.</div>
</div>
<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>ShelterHelper</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093726"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Dog rescues only have so much space. No matter how you put it, it is a numbers game.<br>
They can only rescue as many dogs as resources alow.<br>
If they have one dog in a kennel for it's entire life that might stop them saving another 20 dogs while that kennel space is taken up.<br>
It's a horrible situation but sadly that's the world we live in.<br>
They have to turn down pleas for help every day from dog wardens trying to find rescue spaces for their dogs.<br>
It's just a constant battle for dog rescues to cope with the sheer numbers of dogs involved.<br>
I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but I do know that it is never black and white.<br>
Dog rescues are forced to make horrible decisions every day. Decisions nobody should ever have to make.</div>
</div>
<br>
I don't think it is ethical to have to have an animal "put to sleep" in that situation but as ShelterHelper has written it is a near impossible situation with the amount of animals bred as companions and then handed in to rescue or abandoned as unwanted.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>RabbitLuvr</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093840"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I won't even type out what I would like to see happen to the *******s who abuse animals, but it is not kind.</div>
</div>
<br>
I read an awful story today about a dog from Romania which is now blind because he was abused and tied up and then some **** decided to beat him. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/mad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":mad:">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,280 Posts
Since a life is part of a global planet society, isn't killing and putting an end to this life anti social ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,097 Posts
As an anti-social animal I object.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
It depends on what is meant by anti-social. A dog who crashes through his neighbor's door to maul the innocent dogs, cats, or people inside (and yes, shockingly, this HAS happened) is a lot different situation than a dog who simply doesn't like to be held.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,850 Posts
There's a lot greater chance of a fellow human crashing through your door than of any dog going to that extreme.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,262 Posts
That's true, but it is such extreme and deviant dog behavior that I would consider any dog who does such a thing to be beyond rehabilitation, and an example of anti-social behavior that probably can't be fixed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
I don't think that its ethical, when people kill people they get locked up and sometimes not even for life and sometimes not even at all. When a dog kills another dog they are put to sleep, in most cases the dog is just acting on instinct too not really making a choice like human killers. I had a rabbit once who was the craziest, meanest thing I've ever had in my home. I don't know what was wrong with her but she would attack everything. I would put food in her cage, she would attack her dish for about 5 minutes straight. No one could hold her or even touch her cage without her flipping and attacking.<br>
I had her for about a year I think (this was a while ago) and finally it was too much. I had to wear oven mits or gloves to feed her! There was a place I would go camping (i lived in the coachella valley) where there were these oasis at random places in the desert. They were cool and had lots of plants, plus ample water. The one I would camp at was known to about 4 different families, so not many people would be there ever. I knew there were rabbits there I them all the time, so I took her down there and released her (I actually saw her a few months later...crazy, huh?) anyway I would not put her to sleep for being extremely aggressive, its in all reality not her fault and if I couldn't have released her there I would've just kept her.<br>
When animals such as dogs have come to the point where no one can get near them without them attacking (after you've worked with them) then maybe it would be acceptable. I don't think animal aggression is a reason to be put to sleep though, there are many ways of keeping that specific animal away from other animals and taking extra precautions to ensure no animals are injured. Human aggression is also not something to be instantly put to sleep for. Like I said after working with the dog for a long time and no one can care for it than maybe.<br>
I was about 7 when all this happened but my aunt had a Chow Chow dog, he was big and mean but she loved him and he was so loyal to her and protective. I could pet him and stuff but if I got close to my aunt he would flip. One day I forgot he was in the house and I went running up to my aunt to tell her something and the dog bit me. The next day they had the dog put to sleep and I remember crying for three days straight afterwards not because I loved the dog but because I felt guilty because in my mind it was my fault he was put to sleep. I still get a little knot in my stomach thinking about it because if I hadn't had run up to my aunt the poor dog wouldn't be put to sleep.<br>
That might be a factor in my hating for animal euthanasia, I don't know. I do know that a lot of dogs are provoked by children and then are flagged as aggressive dogs and put to sleep. Sorry my post was so long, I'm done ranting lol~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
I've thought about this extensively before. I am the kind of person who would tend to automatically say "No, it would be wrong to put these animals down." I mean, how arrogant is it of human to say "You dared to injure one of us, so you must die," when the reverse happens every day with no consequences?<br><br>
At the same time, I'm not sure what the alternative is. The truth of the matter is that there aren't enough resources to rehabilitate every hard case. And what of the dogs that just can't be rehabilitated, the ones that will always be a danger? I once considered the idea of some kind of sanctuary for these kinds of animals. But then I thought, what kind of life would that be? Spending most of your time life muzzled or restrained or separated from other creatures, depending on the case? Is that really a better alternative?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
753 Posts
Its extremely difficult but having worked with feral cats if T-N-R is for some reason not possible then euthanasia may be a more ethical option than warehousing for years on end. There is simply a point when keeping the animal alive in a shelter will cause it more suffering than a quick death, our inability to experience the animals POV directly may make it hard to make such determinations but we cant use that to dismiss the idea that shelter life for feral or anti-social animals can be hell and the facility most places have are quite cramped. Aside from that isse there is also the issue of practicality. I think we need to keep in mind that those doing animal rescue work have limited resources, the number of easily adoptable animals one could save for the cost of warehousing a single unadoptable animal is immense. I'm all for letting an animal live out its life in sanctuary but unfortunately that isnt always possible. It hard enough on well adjusted, cute puppies and kitties to get adopted, spending many times that amount of money on single animals will reduce the number of lives the shelter can assist. So unless your area shelters regularly have empty cages and extra cash for medical bills (both of which tend to be resources in shorter supply than demand) then euthanasia shouldnt be rejected outright.<br>
Unfortunately I have had to call the authorities on a cat hoarder who among others had ferals in small cages for years and years on end, eventually she had a mental breakdown and couldnt keep up with the place and it turned into one of the most unsanitary situations you have ever seen. It seriously rivaled every undercover shelter and factory farm video Ive ever seen, the ammonia in the air alone burned your eyes.<br>
I had contacted various local animal rescue groups, non of which were able or willing to help (but they are still willing to rail against euthanasia), except for ICRA who helped me get the legal ball rolling. It was one of the hardest things Ive ever had to do, I knew that many of those cats would be going to their deaths soon, but leaving them to rot (some literally had rotting sores) was a worse option.
 

·
Herbivorous Urchin
Joined
·
9,717 Posts
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/3093009"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
No.<br><br>
Unless an animal is so "anti-social" that is shoots acidic venom up to 8 meters away towards anyone trying to approach or feed, it can't really be called euthanasia, as the death won't be a happy release from suffering, but a testament to humans' lack of finding a way to work with difficult animals.<br><br>
We don't "euthanize" anti-social humans either, except in very backwards countries like the US.</div>
</div>
<br>
Agree 100%
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top