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I was talking with a friend the other day about animal and diet-related issues (I'm vegan, he's an omnivore) and we started talking about permaculture. He suggested to me that, since human beings have screwed up natural ecosystems in this country so badly, they have ethical responsibilities to restore whatever level of homeostasis is possible in order to maintain some sort of environmental integrity. He then told me that the way to do this was for humans to mimic ecosystems by raising animals using permaculture methods. In this way, he sees raising and killing animals such as bison and chickens morally defensible because it may be the most effective way to restore what has been destroyed. What does everyone think of this argument?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Green_Gentleman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2822309"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
He then told me that the way to do this was for humans to mimic ecosystems by raising animals using permaculture methods. In this way, he sees raising and killing animals such as bison and chickens morally defensible because it may be the most effective way to restore what has been destroyed. What does everyone think of this argument?</div>
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How is this possible sustainable for such a large world population?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>broccoliflower</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2822740"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Is there a specific source he was using? Or was he talking about permaculture in general?</div>
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Permaculture in general, but he's in grad school for environmental policy, so I suppose he's read some literature on the subject.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AddieB</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2822924"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
How is this possible sustainable for such a large world population?</div>
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I think the idea behind it was that people would consume a lot less because prices would go up since it was taking longer to produce.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Green_Gentleman</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2822309"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I was talking with a friend the other day about animal and diet-related issues (I'm vegan, he's an omnivore) and we started talking about permaculture. He suggested to me that, since human beings have screwed up natural ecosystems in this country so badly, they have ethical responsibilities to restore whatever level of homeostasis is possible in order to maintain some sort of environmental integrity. He then told me that the way to do this was for humans to mimic ecosystems by raising animals using permaculture methods. In this way, he sees raising and killing animals such as bison and chickens morally defensible because it may be the most effective way to restore what has been destroyed. What does everyone think of this argument?</div>
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It's BALONEY.
 

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My boyfriend works in permaculture. He is getting his permaculture design certification and natural building certification... and he is a long time vegan.<br><br>
I agree with the philosophy of having ethical responsibility to restore environmental integrity, and permaculture design is very good for that. Yes, animals are helpful in permaculture farming. For example, chickens contribute to the tilling of gardens, maintenance of pests etc, but I see no connection or sense in the killing of the animals?? His thinking is flawed... I don't see how it would be an "effective way to restore what has been destroyed." <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":confused:"> I am lost on that one.<br><br>
We are vegan and we plan to run a permaculture farm of our own. We will rescue chickens and other animals, perhaps even apply for a Farm Sanctuary grant. There is nothing wrong with rescuing chickens from a farm where they would have been killed... and letting them roam free on your vegan permaculture property - doing their chicken thing (that happens to benefit the growth of produce and plants) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>paisleyjane</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2841383"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I agree with the philosophy of having ethical responsibility to restore environmental integrity, and permaculture design is very good for that. Yes, animals are helpful in permaculture farming. For example, chickens contribute to the tilling of gardens, maintenance of pests etc, but I see no connection or sense in the killing of the animals??</div>
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Exactly my thoughts!<br>
There's no need to kill and eat animals, period.<br>
Perhaps there are some good reasons to breed and raise animals (although I doubt it) but kill and eat them? Nope, not necessary.<br>
And even if there were a need to kill them, there are likely much better and more ethical uses for their flesh. For example, to feed carnivorous animals. or starving people. Not to feed wealthy Americans who grow plenty of plants and have little difficulty thriving on vegan diets.<br>
It sounds to me like he just wants an excuse to eat bisons.
 
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