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Ok, this is something that a friend of mine expressed to me awhile back and I've been mulling it over for awhile...wanted to see what you guys thought about it.<br><br><br><br>
Now let me preface by saying that I love animals, and I love having pets. I've got some baby kitties on hold at my mother-in laws house that I'm waiting to get old enough to take from their mum, and I can't wait for those little furballs to be batting around my yarn and snuggling on my face while i sleep. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smitten.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":smitten:"><br><br><br><br>
Anyways, my friend said to me that he doesn't believe in keeping pets because it seems like they ought to be wild and free, and keeping them in a tiny apartment seems like keeping them in captivity. I guess this also hinges on whether or not you think zoos are immoral. And he did live in a tiny 3rd story apartment, so I would think that some animals, like a dog, for instance, would be pretty unhappy up there. And having had reptiles in the past, it makes me sad to see them wake up at 9pm and spend all night trying to find a seam or a hole to slip out of (and doing so on occasion, and then I've got to look under all the appliances, and in any warm, dark spots for them! agh!). Or sitting in their tree branch under the artificial light in a box too small for them to turn around. That stuff breaks my heart.<br><br><br><br>
But in general, how do you feel about keeping animals in captivity? It seems to me like it would be immoral in some situations, like a dog in an apartment, like I said, or a caged animal in a too-small cage, but maybe not so much if you have a big house and a backyard? I'm still getting those dang kitties either way, cuz they're just tooooo freaking cute.....just trying to figure out how to feel about this issue. I probably won't be getting reptiles for awhile, though, if for no other reason than that they more than double the electric bill!
 

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Well I don't think captivity <i>necessarily</i> takes anything significantly away from an animal's welfare, if the said companion animal is walked regularly for example.<br><br><br><br>
But the whole issue is pretty moot for me because 1) I don't believe we should breed any more "pets" 2) the ones that are already here we have to have in captivity in any case - we can't just set them free.
 

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I don't buy the wild and free thing. Wild animals have short tough lives for their freedom. Why do you we end up with cat overpopulation for instance?.they breed like for a reason, because when they lived in the wild, they needed to replace dying indivduals.<br><br>
Some people seem to think once animals are freed from the horrors of captivty, they'll live these wonderful lives in the wild.<br><br>
If anyone kept cats like they probably lived in the wild, they'd probably get arested for cruelty.<br><br><br><br>
Cats probably do get bored in small appartments. I know my upstairs neighbors keeps an indoor cat in an appartment about the size of mine and the cat often wants to go outside. If it wasn't for the rescued aspect, I'd get another type of animal for this kind of enviroment.<br><br>
In the meantime, indoor cats living in larger houses do seem happy enough and never want to go out.<br><br>
I havn't had a cat in many many years myself so just sharing what I've observed.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Sevenseas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><br>
But the whole issue is pretty moot for me because 1) I don't believe we should breed any more "pets" 2) the ones that are already here we have to have in captivity in any case - we can't just set them free.</div>
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Bingo.
 

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I think it depends on the environment and the pet. For example if it really is true that goldfish forget everything every three seconds then a tank would probably be fine.<br><br>
I would say that as long as a dosmestic animal is allowed to engage in all or at least most of its natural behaviours then it's ok. In saying that, there are a number of domstic animals that have been breed for dealing well with human contact and wild animals who have not should not be kept as domestic pets.
 

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Re. "3 second memory," I'm sad to see this kind of myth about animals passed on as possible truth <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("> Like, just the other day I heard somone talking about how "stupid" turkeys are, because some look up and drown in the rain - but the reason for this is not stupidity, but a genetic abnormality (a kind of spasm) that some birds have.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">A scientific review presented to the Australian Veterinary Association completely disproved the old myth that goldfish have three-second memories; instead, the veterinarians found that goldfish have impressive memories and problem-solving abilities. One of the researchers said that after conducting the review, they wanted to get the message out to vets to start looking more closely at fish and considering their welfare like they do other animals.<br><br>
The Sunday Times, May 28, 2006</div>
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<br><br><br><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1179348.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1179348.htm</a><br><br><a href="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:dJe1oJu-o2sJ:www.nofishing.net/feat-hiddenfish.asp" target="_blank">http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...hiddenfish.asp</a>
 

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Re. "3 second memory," that would not be true.<br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">A scientific review presented to the Australian Veterinary Association completely disproved the old myth that goldfish have three-second memories; instead, the veterinarians found that goldfish have impressive memories and problem-solving abilities. One of the researchers said that after conducting the review, they wanted to get the message out to vets to start looking more closely at fish and considering their welfare like they do other animals.<br><br>
The Sunday Times, May 28, 2006</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1179348.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1179348.htm</a><br><br><a href="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:dJe1oJu-o2sJ:www.nofishing.net/feat-hiddenfish.asp" target="_blank">http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...hiddenfish.asp</a>
 

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We domesticated animals for a reason many years ago. We now have an overpopluation of cats & dogs & people should want to give it a home even if an apt. The life of an animal & their love is like nothing else & should be sacred. I will never rest until all pets are spayed & neutered.
 

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Cats and dogs are not the only domesticated/captive animals overpopulated: Iguanas, some kinds of birds/parrots?, rabbits, pot bellied pigs and guinnia pigs are all overpopulated. If you get a companion animal on a rescue only basis, then you should consider these too.
 

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Well, I had a rabbit once. It had a cage. Of course the cage was about 5 feet by 10 feet. with an entire insulated dog house inside filled with straw.<br><br><br><br>
I also have a cat. I think it's a bit mean to have an animal and then work all day and go out all night. It needs to be taken care of and played with and pet and cuddled and kissed and hugged and shnuggled and treated like I'd want to be treated if I were a cat.<br><br><br><br>
Anywho, It depends on how you care for the animal. I know a person who crates her german shepard for 10 hours at a time. That's not nice. That's mean.
 

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Choosing the righ animal for your lifestyle and sometimes imposed limitations is a key part of choosing an animal. If you don't cuddle the animal, then quite simply get an animal who doesn't like to be cuddled.<br><br>
If you don't have time, get a low maintence animal and so on.<br><br><br><br>
But then sometimes our life changes unexpectly and an animal that previously fits in no longer does. Maybe that is what happened with this person you know with a German shephard.<br><br><br><br>
I mean when a person's life changes unexpectly and they can no longer provide a suitable home for an animal in their care, their choices will be compromises or rehoming the animal (which I gather is a no no on this board)
 

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Cats and dogs and other domesticated animals have been bred for centuries to be, well, domestic, and have lost a great deal of their "wildness." A domestic cat or dog (or reptile, bird, etc.) often is not well-equipped to survive in the wild. In addition, the areas in which most people live (cities, suburbs) are not well-suited for wild animals (traffic, poisons, etc.). Therefore, "freeing" a domesticated animal is more cruel than kind.<br><br><br><br>
If I set free my corn snake (who I ignorantly bought at a pet store 11 years ago before I'd thought much about all of these issues), he'd probably starve, or be snapped up by a predator before he had a chance to starve. He's never had to hunt or defend himself, so the instincts to do so aren't too sharp. Would I buy an animal from a pet store again? No, but at least I can give him a comfortable life in captivity.<br><br><br><br>
As for my cats, they are all adopted, and living in my home is a much better life than they would have living on the streets, or living (or dying) in a shelter.
 

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I've never known or heard about anyone keeping indoor cats. Isnt it rare? I live in norway though, so it might depends on countries.<br><br><br><br>
I guess cats will be fine inside as long as they get enough excercise. I would hate not having fresh air and wind though =P
 

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I have had a few different indoor cats, a dog that loved to be outside, we have a hampster, and a bunny. The rabbit is a baby, and I'm sure he'll get bigger.... we do have a cage for him, and leave it open on the floor. He uses it as a litter box, or a kennel overnight or while we are not home. I'm home with the kids all day and he is out pretty much the whole time I'm home and awake.<br><br><br><br>
I do think keeping certain animals is not fair to them... and certain animals would be unhappy caged all the time. The hampster seems to be fine~ we try to let him out in his ball but he is so tiny he can't make it go. He's happier getting somewhere on his wheel. So he comes out in the ball when it's time to clean out his cage.<br><br><br><br>
The bunny would be unhappy in the cage all day. As it is, he loves to run around the house, play with the kids (they play a version of tag I guess)... he has such a personality! He circles our feet when we are at the table, hides under the couch... burrows in his cage. When the weather is nicer we plan on getting him a harness/leash and taking him outside to run in the grass. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> The leash will keep him out of harm's way, and keep him close by while the kids play. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"><br><br><br><br>
Anyway, so I do think it depends on how you do things. But you can't really release a domesticated animal back into the wild. Once they become dependant on humans for food, they need it forever. While they might have SOME success finding it on their own in the wild, they will still return to places where humans are and ask for a hand out. And it is much better, in that case, to be in a home where people understand the animal's dietary needs and can take the animal to a vet if they need medical attention.<br><br><br><br>
Domesticated animals tend to live longer, overall, than the same breed/type in the wild.
 

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I've been thinking about this and I think that's what I love about my cat's life. She has the cat door open all the time and can come and go as she pleases. She's almost free. The only time we ever coerce her into doing something is when she goes to the vet, and when we hold her briefly to put her flea and worm stuff on. Apart from that she does, and goes where ever she wants, when ever she wants. I love that about her, it makes it so special when she chooses to hang out with us.
 

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Well, the domestication process was a long and co-benificial step in the evolution of our species's. The evolution of the man/dog bond for example happened because it was mutually benifical for both parties involved. This process happened over hundreds of thousands of years. It was gradual. It is impossible to domesticate a wild animal. Taking a tiger and placing it in a cage is not natural. With domestic animals however the human household is the "natural" environment. Removed from this environment they would certinially perish. Dogs & yes cats (the lifespan for a feral cat...even one who is beeing fed & offered vet care in a feral colony is only 2 years even if they can "hunt") rely either directly (companions) or indirectly (feral animals who use human made dwellings for shelter & human waste products for nurishment) on human kind for their survival.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
The fact is that these animals are here now. Regardless of how they got here they rely on us for saftey and support. They are not capable of providing for themselves. We have a great responsibility to these animals to provide for their basic needs. If we abandon them...they perish. I don't believe that animals should be "bred" as companions at all for any reason. The animals who are here....and for whom we can prevent death & suffering (by preventing overpopulation/animal abuse) deserve our respect. Our mutual relationship demands at the very least respect if not love and adoration. Any other animals...I have issues with keeping in "captivity"...ESPECIALLY birds of any kind, large animals, great apes, and ocean mammals. I believe their self-awareness & their ability to suffer mentally from the stress that captivity imposes upon them outweights what ever benifit that keeping them in captivity would provide for a human person.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Pescas</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I've never known or heard about anyone keeping indoor cats. Isnt it rare? I live in norway though, so it might depends on countries.<br><br><br><br>
I guess cats will be fine inside as long as they get enough excercise. I would hate not having fresh air and wind though =P</div>
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It's rare to have an outdoor cat around here.
 

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I often feel bad for our hamster. I mean, generally the little dude doesn't seem to care that he lives in a cage, but all the same I find it sad that he does.<br><br><br><br>
But I also feel bad for him having to live alone because two will kill eachother...I spent half my time feeling bad for him over things that aren't in my control really.<br><br><br><br>
He gets lots of love and good food though.
 

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I think there are a lot of factors to consider. For example, cats and dogs (and cows for that matter) don't have natural habitats anymore. They only survive with human support. And I think it's our responsibility to care for them.
 
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