[bekajoi]

I keep seeing (in different veg boards) people getting upset and not wanting to celebrate taking away the land from the Indians (native americans, whatever you want to call the people who first populated the US)...

UM, did nobody pay attention in school?

Thanksgiving was a day where the Pilgrims and the Indians came together and learned to work together, to help each other survive a very harsh winter. Many people died the year prior, and with the help of the Indians, the Pilgrims has a much better go of things that next winter.

It is celebrating what we HAVE, what we are grateful for.

Is it tragic what happened to the Indians in the hundred years to follow (and beyond)? Absolutely. BUT that is not what this day is all about.

Am I the only one who remembers this? There is no reason to be angry with the day itself. If you want to be angry, be angry at the companies who raise and kill millions of birds for the consumers who want them.

 

[karenlovessnow]

Thanks bekajoi...you prompted me to do some 'googling' and this is what I found:

http://www.plimoth.org/learn/history...pumpkinpie.asp

Prior to the mid-1800s, Thanksgiving had nothing to do with the 1621 harvest celebration, Pilgrims or Native People. Thanksgiving started as a traditional New England holiday that celebrated family and community. It descended from Puritan days of fasting and festive rejoicing. The governor of each colony or state declared a day of thanksgiving each autumn, to give thanks for general blessings. As New Englanders moved west in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, they took their holiday with them. After the harvest, governors across the country proclaimed individual Thanksgivings, and families traveled back to their original homes for family reunions, church services and large meals.

The Pilgrims, Wampanoag and Thanksgiving were first linked together in 1841, when historian Alexander Young rediscovered Edward Winslow's account of the 1621 harvest celebration. The account was part of the text of a letter to a friend in England, later published in Mourt's Relation (1622). Young isolated the description of the harvest celebration, and identified it as the precedent for the New England Thanksgiving. At this point, Young's claim had little impact on the popular concept of Thanksgiving, however.

In the 1800s, battles between pioneers and Native People trying to hold onto their land colored images of Thanksgiving. Images of Natives and colonists sharing a meal did not fit with contemporary scenes of violence between pioneers and Natives in the west. While there were a couple of images showing a "First Thanksgiving" with Pilgrims and Natives together, such scenes were not common until after the end of the "Indian Wars" in the 1890s. The association between Pilgrims, Natives and Thanksgiving became stronger after 1890, when the census revealed the western frontier to be closed, and the "Indian Wars" ended.

 

[Thalia]

I was wondering about the actual origins, too. It seems there have been celebrations for the natural changes of the seasons through most cultures through most of history, so it seems unlikley that Thanksgiving was not some harvest festival or something before 1621.

I agree with the OP. I don't think that just because the famous Thanksgiving story can be associated with the eventual demise of many native peoples that that is what we are now celebrating. Traditions mean whatever meaning we give to them. Much of what we do today probably has some ugly past. There is really no way to esacpe that. I don't think it should be ignored, but it seems to make more sense to acknowledge bad things that happened, learn from them and move positively forward.

 

[Medesha]

And in Canada, we celebrate Thanksgiving for a completely different reason! And in a different month.

 

[GhostUser]

Medesha, sorry if this sounds rude or stupid..What is thanksgiving about in Canada?

 

[Medesha]

Not at all! I love talking about cultural differences. It's so interesting.

Canadian and American thanksgivings are pretty much identical in terms of how we celebrate now (the turkey-centric-ness, the football games, the kids making construction paper cornucopias (at least in my school)). I think it's because our countries and cultures are so close together we tend to blend and merge with each other. We celebrate Thanksgiving on the second Monday in October.

Our Thanksgiving comes from a European tradition of a harvest celebration, when people would give thanks for the bounty they collected that would get them through the winter. In 1578, an english explorer named Martin Frobisher made it safely to what is now Newfoundland, and held a small thanksgiving celebration to mark his journey. (At least, that's how the story goes).

Future explorers, and then settlers, held similar celebrations in late October/early November, until 1957 when the Canadian government declared the second Monday in October to be the official Thanksgiving holiday. Some people say it's because we celebrate Rememberance Day (similar to Veteran's Day) on November 11th, and they didn't want two holidays falling on the same week. Whatever the true origins, it's now very similar to American Thanksgiving in terms of how we celebrate.

We also don't have the commercial "day after Thanksgiving sales" orgy that the States does. Instead we have Boxing Day, which is a commercial day after Christmas sales orgy.

 

[Thalia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medesha

We also don't have the commercial "day after Thanksgiving sales" orgy that the States does. Instead we have Boxing Day, which is a commercial day after Christmas sales orgy.

I was thinking to myself that in the US, the day after Christmas is a sales orgy, too. But then again, basically everyday would be if the retailers could get it to be.

 

[Elijah]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9202151AAc9JD0

http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/turquo...nksgiving.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...(United_States)

http://www.roadtopeace.org/research....d=734&catid=46

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving

Food for thought, I really don't know what to believe.

 

[philocrates]

Don't ever take a 400 level American Religious History class if you want to do Thanksgiving.. Alas...

Many of my students refuse to do it after taking the class...

The best solution? Thanksgiving is Gratitude Day. Today what are you grateful for? It seems nice to set aside a Gratitude day no matter what you choose to believe.

And just because I believe it? Doesn't make it true. But it works both ways... big wink..

 

[southern_vegan]

I personally celebrate Thanksgiving because I want to give thanks to God for all the many blessings He's given me/us. He's blessed me with a great family, great home, great friends and many, many other things. We all have som much to be thankful for, and I like having a day where that's really what we should be thinking on.

 

[bekajoi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by southern_vegan

I personally celebrate Thanksgiving because I want to give thanks to God for all the many blessings He's given me/us. He's blessed me with a great family, great home, great friends and many, many other things. We all have som much to be thankful for, and I like having a day where that's really what we should be thinking on.

EXACTLY. This is what the day SHOULD be. I'm just trying to figure out why people let the rest of it get under their skin.

I'm SURE history has been written with an angle, like everything else has. I don't doubt that perhaps what we were taught in school wasn't the exact truth. But it shouldn't matter. The day can be something special to US, if we just think of it like this ^^

 

[GhostUser]

hmm. history is history, just by thinking about it the way you want doesn't right the wrongs. I personally believe in seeing the truth in all things, and acting accordingly. for an example, i think it's a shame that Columbus Day is celebrated in the US.

I don't think that it should bother you so much that some people don't celebrate Thanksgiving because of the questionable history. they are taking a stand ethically, like you do with your veg*nism.

 

[DoveInGrey]

I never knew that. But then I have the excuse of being british