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Hi folks, I've been involved on another forum and the discussion there was started around whether or not vegans 'expect' special consideration when invited to anothers home. The example given was the program where a group of people take turns cooking for one another and one of the group is a vegan. The meat eaters cooked a special dish for 'the vegan' but when it came time for the vegan fellow to cook, he didn't provide a meat dish. Of course the bunch I was talking with were irritated by that, declaring it patently unfair that the vegan didn't take their diets into consideration. I should point out that according to the OP who posed the question, the vegan didn't actually ask for a special dish.<br><br>
I and my daughter are vegans and we would never EXPECT someone to cook specially for us. We are both comfortable with the usual side dishes,having the philosophy that if we are there it is not for the free meal, but more for the company. Being fully aware of the fact that we are 'ambassadors' for the lifestyle, we try not to be the 'ugly vegan'.<br><br>
In my recent discussions, there were numerous references to 'vegans ALWAYS expecting to be treated special and accomodated, etc.'. The question I'm asking here, to all you vegans, is "do you expected to be treated special"? I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say. Thanks.
 

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Sounds like you're talking about Come Dine With Me. A UK programme.<br><br>
The answer is, yes, I do expect to be catered for. You ask me round for dinner, you meet my dietary requirements. The thing with 'meat eaters' is they can consume vegan food with no hassle. Vegans obviously cannot consume what meat eaters eat as in animal products.<br><br>
ME who complain about not being catered for need to stop their whining. One day or one meal without meat/eggs/dairy/etc will not kill them, and their body will all the better for it.
 

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I never expect it, I'm always surprised to discover that someone went out of their way. More often than not, though, someone feels especially put out that they thought they had to go out of their way for me and they feel I didn't bow down and worship them enough for it... leading to hard feelings.<br><br>
I try not to place myself in a position where I have to ask for anything. I try very hard to find something on a menu that I only need to change one thing... like "I'd like a number four, but without cheese. Thanks!" ...but too often, only if they know I'm vegan, the people freak out and act like I'm trying to re-write the recipe from the bottom up. They come out from the kitchen asking sarcastically "Can you eat flour? Is it okay if we leave the flour in?"<br><br>
Unfortunately, there are a few vegans out there who think they're royalty and deserve special treatment... but it's really not often you run into a spoiled brat like that. Most of the time when I'm accused of "expecting special treatment" its all in the person's head. "Oh... SHE'S coming? Well, we'll have to do this, and this, and that, and... oh... she's so much trouble... why did you invite her?" <-- Geez, it's just a bowling game for crying out loud.<br><br>
*** Tell your omni friends to settle down. Vegans should learn to take care of themselves. If a vegan does expect special treatment, then they deserve to be humbled, and maybe they should learn to plan for themselves.<br><br>
*** To the food service industry... I, and every other vegetarian I know, are very good tippers. We appreciate small kindnesses, like making sure there was no cheese put on the burrito. Check your attitude. I have even left a $5 tip for a $7 burrito before because the staff was SO nice, and gave me <span style="text-decoration:underline;">lots</span> of extra veggies to make up for the items I was leaving off.<br><br>
Edited to add, after reading Tofulicious's post...<br>
I'm not referring to being invited over to a person's house, where it is just the two of you eating. If that person serves nothing but meat, and then gets mad because you're not eating, that was just poor taste on the other person's part.
 

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I don't think it's a vegan thing. I think it's common courtesy that when you invite someone over to dinner, if they have allergies or other considerations with regard to diet (religious beliefs, ethics), that you provide something for them.<br><br>
If someone was a meat eater and they ate pork, beef, chicken, and fish, and someone provided a meal with "only" chicken, would that meat eater be upset? No. So why are these idiots making a fuss about eating a plant-based meal? Sounds like they are the ones who think they get special consideration, regardless of another's ethics of not wanting to kill animals.
 

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If you invite me over for dinner, you cook something for me that I can eat or forget about it. I have an ethical problem with animal products. I don't know anyone who has an ethical problem with rice or vegetables.<br><br>
Simple as that.
 

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I agree with both Tofulicious and penny79.<br><br>
Sounds like these buffoons on the programme possibly had onset CJD, from eating too much meat!<br><br>
What exactly do you mean by the term "ugly vegan" Dieselsmom?
 

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I just re-read the first post. I somehow missed the part where we really were talking about being invited over to someone's home. If one meat-eater invites another meat-eater over, and the person invited doesn't like pork, and the host KNOWS the invited meat-eater doesn't like pork but cooks it anyway, that's very poor taste.<br><br>
I really thought we were talking about larger social gatherings, like a company BBQ.<br><br>
True story:<br>
There's a woman I work with who hasn't spoken to me in a few years. Here's why:<br>
She got married a few years ago. I gave a "maybe" RSVP, and just left the "chicken or beef" card blank. I verbally told her that I didn't know if I would have to work or not. Well, right before her wedding, someone in my department quit, so I had to work that evening. She just gave me the cold shoulder and ignored me after that. I found out months later that she had a special vegan meal prepared for me, and then I didn't show. Whatever, I didn't know. Even if I had gone, I would have eaten a ton of food beforehand so I wouldn't be hungry...since she never breathed a word about the special plate just for me. Now, she absolutely will not speak to me. So, really, the "Vegan's expect special treatment" thing is sometimes really just in a person's head.
 

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No, I don't expect special treatment. If I'm going to someone's house for dinner, I will do my best to find out beforehand what type of food will be available, and if it doesn't seem like there will be much for me (a BBQ, say) then I'll offer to bring a dish to share. When I was vegetarian (not vegan) I'd count on being able to load up on the side dishes, but often even those aren't vegan (mashed potatoes with milk and butter, for ex.), so I now try to plan ahead more.<br><br>
I absolutely will not cook meat for a meat eater who comes to my house, but my husband is an omnivore, so he will. If people come over, either we all eat vegan or he cooks meat for himself and the other meat-eaters, depending on what type of meal it is.<br><br>
I think a meat-eater expecting a vegan to cook meat for them is completely out of line. There's no reason a meat-eater can't eat vegan food, but there IS a reason why vegans can't eat/cook meat. I do my absolute best to cater to everyone's food preferences otherwise (if I'm cooking for an omni who doesn't like olives, for example, I won't use them in the dish), but I draw the line at preparing meat.
 

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I wonder if the people who complain about the lack of meat would do the same if they were dealing with religious reasons for avoiding meat or other foodstuffs. Would an omni really complain if a Muslim wouldn't cook pork for them? Or a Jain cooked a vegetarian meal? And of course, there is also the possibility of allergies. Who would expect to be served dairy from a cook that has a dairy allergy?<br><br>
Obviously, there are ethical considerations here, but even if we just look at meat as being an ingredient, isn't it a bit silly to actually demand a specific food? If we replaced "meat" with, say, potatoes, would they complain if they got a full meal but without any potatoes? Given that they can actually eat vegetarian food, I don't get why they are complaining, apart from a sense of entitlement and misunderstood idea of accommodating people with different dietary preferences.
 

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Absolutely not. Not everyone knows I'm vegan, I don't want to inconvenience them, and honestly I don't expect anyone to make a fuss or go out of their way for me, I'd rather sort it out myself. I usually do any combination of fill up on something before I go, scope the vegan side dishes/snacks and eat those, or, most often, I take a vegan dish to share so I know there'll be something I can eat so there's no "Oh I'm so sorry I didn't know!" or "Oh poor you, you can't even have X Y or Z..." conversations, AND I'm wowing them with tasty vegan noms. I wouldn't make meat or egg or dairy based dishes for them if they came to my house either. Obviously it's nice when someone asks and they do go to the trouble, but I by no means expect it.
 

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I think that, if you invite someone to eat at your home, you should provide something they can eat. Omivores can eat vegan food, so there's no problem there. I personally refuse to cook non-vegan food, since I think it's wrong to eat animal products. I don't know many omnivores who feel that way about plants.
 

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There's a complete difference between a vegan requiring vegan food, and someone who eats meat expecting to be served meat.<br><br>
Vegans have an ethical commitment to not eating meat but there's absolutly no reason that a meat-eater needs to eat meat. It's impolite not to cater to someones requirements, but it's not impolite to cook a meal that caters to someones requirments but just doesn't happen to have an ingrediant someone particularlly likes it in!<br><br>
Infact, it's impolite to expect someone to go against their beliefs just to cater to your preferences.<br><br>
If I am invited to someones for dinner, I expect there to be a vegan meal available for me. I am of course very grateful, because I recogise it takes extra effort, but I'm not going to sit there with nothing to eat (or just a side dish) and not think it impolite that someones invited me to a meal and then not thought about my requirments. That's just poor hosting skills, and frankly a bit disrespectful.<br><br>
For my part, if someone invites me for dinner, I make sure they know I'm vegan and offer to help out/bring some vegan food/etc, and am extreemly touched if someone goes the extra mile for me. If someone comes to my house for dinner I try to find out what foods they like, what sort of things they like to eat, so I can make sure they'll like what I cook.<br><br>
Of course, if I just happen to be at someones house (not invited specifically for a meal) it's different, and I don't expect anything.<br><br>
On the topic of come dine with me, a lot of people have a ridiculous sense of what's right and wrong on there anyway. Some people are outraged that vegetarians don't serve them meat and similarly that muslims don't serve them wine - honestly I have seen people have an absolute fit because there wasn't any alcohol at a dinner party. You don't have a right to be served alcohol at a dinner party, how outrageous and rude!
 

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Nope. Before accepting an invite, I let people know that I'm vegan and offer to bring a dish to share. Most accept the offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>vincent</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2904470"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I agree with both Tofulicious and penny79.<br><br>
Sounds like these buffoons on the programme possibly had onset CJD, from eating too much meat!<br><br>
What exactly do you mean by the term "ugly vegan" Dieselsmom?</div>
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You know, the generalized concept of the vegan who expects everything all the while badmouthing everyone and giving nothing back in return. The generalized concept of a vegan who makes no effort to get along. That is what I meant by the 'ugly vegan'. On the other forum I was on, that is the sort of vegan that they were all referring to, insinuating that we are all like that.<br><br>
On forums when discussing the whole vegan/animal abuse situation, I have learned to be factual always, to avoid inflammatory language and name calling and to be ready to provide links to information that backs up what I'm saying. I figure that if it comes down to a [email protected]@ing match, I'm going to win because they won't be able to accuse me of anything other than being factual, considerate, fair, honest.....if you get my drift. I figure this way they will wind up looking petty and mean and without a leg to stand on as opposed to me looking that way. Of course that won't mean a lot to them if they are petty, mean and dishonest even with themselves, but there may be a 'lurker' in the bushes and it's my hope that they will notice the difference.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dieselsmom</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2904612"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
You know, the generalized concept of the vegan who expects everything all the while badmouthing everyone and giving nothing back in return. The generalized concept of a vegan who makes no effort to get along. That is what I meant by the 'ugly vegan'. On the other forum I was on, that is the sort of vegan that they were all referring to, insinuating that we are all like that.<br><br>
On forums when discussing the whole vegan/animal abuse situation, I have learned to be factual always, to avoid inflammatory language and name calling and to be ready to provide links to information that backs up what I'm saying. I figure that if it comes down to a [email protected]@ing match, I'm going to win because they won't be able to accuse me of anything other than being factual, considerate, fair, honest.....if you get my drift. I figure this way they will wind up like petty and mean and without a leg to stand on. Of course that won't mean a lot to them if they are petty, mean and dishonest even with themselves, but there may be a 'lurker' in the bushes and it's my hope that they will notice the difference.</div>
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Trust me, even using facts is a waste of your time on most mixed boards. The majority of those involved in any discussion that are omnivorous choose to ignore fact and just keep on restating what they said several pages back. It seems a lot of omnivores love getting on the defensive when it actually comes to moral or health debates etc regarding animal use.<br><br>
That said, I'd like to add to the discussion that when I have ended up being dragged to a meal with family I have found it very degrading to be brought to a restaurant where about all I can eat is a side dish. It makes the vegan out to be the annoying one when it doesn't harm anyone to find a vegan friendly restaurant (i.e. Chinese or Indian)
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Tofulicious</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2904620"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
That said, I'd like to add to the discussion that when I have ended up being dragged to a meal with family I have found it very degrading to be brought to a restaurant where about all I can eat is a side dish. It makes the vegan out to be the annoying one when it doesn't harm anyone to find a vegan friendly restaurant (i.e. Chinese or Indian)</div>
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Have you tried steering the selection toward a place that would work for you? I definitely agree that it's best to go to a vegan-friendly restaurant, but I've found most omnivores don't know what that would entail unless you tell them.
 

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I hadn't been vegan long when this happened and was still quite young so I wouldn't have had the balls to stand up and speak for myself then. My dad still moans at me though if we have to look for somewhere to eat after a long journey even though he knows I can eat chinese, indian, vegetable kebab etc.<br><br>
It's not nice to be treated as though you're a burden because of what you believe in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for all the interesting replies folks. I think that I'm in agreement that if I were invited as the sole guest, I would expect that the main dish would be vegan friendly, but if it was a large crowd and a resulting large table of food, I'd probably be able to find something thereon to munch. And when I'm invited to a barbecue, I've made it a point to bring along a veggie pattie or two just to make sure I don't starve or have to eat only potato chips. I have few expectations of anyone these days, which simply means I have fewer disappointments in life. Less stressful and all. I did find it interesting though that so many on that forum were so convicted that we (vegans) should/must ignore our own morals and ethics in order to provide them with meat.<br><br>
As to Tofulicious' remarks about omnivores ignoring facts, too true. Or the favourite there was, what about all the rice and tea that vegans eat? What about the deforestation that comes from that? Good grief. Considering that we are what, maybe 3% of the world population, and now we are responsible for all the deforestation because of the rice we cook with! You just gotta shake your head in amazement.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Dieselsmom</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2904681"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Thanks for all the interesting replies folks. I think that I'm in agreement that if I were invited as the sole guest, I would expect that the main dish would be vegan friendly, but if it was a large crowd and a resulting large table of food, I'd probably be able to find something thereon to munch. And when I'm invited to a barbecue, I've made it a point to bring along a veggie pattie or two just to make sure I don't starve or have to eat only potato chips. I have few expectations of anyone these days, which simply means I have fewer disappointments in life. Less stressful and all. I did find it interesting though that so many on that forum were so convicted that we (vegans) should/must ignore our own morals and ethics in order to provide them with meat.<br><br>
As to Tofulicious' remarks about omnivores ignoring facts, too true. Or the favourite there was, what about all the rice and tea that vegans eat? What about the deforestation that comes from that? Good grief. Considering that we are what, maybe 3% of the world population, and now we are responsible for all the deforestation because of the rice we cook with! You just gotta shake your head in amazement.</div>
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Deforestation because of rice? That's a new one I've heard. Most rice is from rice paddies in Asia that have been there for decades. And last time I checked omnivores eat rice too! Silly omnivores. I've never been to a barbecue since going vegan and I don't think I'd want to. It's enough to just smell the damn stuff during the summer months. Don't particularly want to be near char grilled death.
 
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