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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm really curious. I know most cigarettes aren't even vegetarian, let alone vegan, but there is American Spirit. I've asked around and a lot of people think this a huge contradiction, because vegans are supposed to be healthy and care about the environment, etc. I don't think smoking really has much of an affect on the environment, maybe I'm wrong...it's depleting or ozone or whatever, but I think cigarettes wouldn't have that much of an impact, and what about fires? Just doesn't make sense to me. I know smoking is bad for your health, but it's a good relaxer and some people do it to live a shorter life, anyway. I didn't go vegan so I would live to be 84, so I don't see how it's even relevant that it's bad for you. I see how these things can be relevant to some vegans, but I don't think it applies to everyone.

I'm just wondering if any of you smoke, why you do so (and if it's because you can't quit, then why you started) and if you want to or are trying to quit. If you don't smoke, or did and quit when you went veg, why don't you? Basically, I just want to know if it had anything to do with veganism. Also, your thoughts on if there's a conflict with smoking and a vegan lifestyle.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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I don't, Never have, never will, My father however, is a vegetarian and smokes American Spirits.
 

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No. I just find it disgusting. I'm sensitive to smells, as in really sensitive. I usually can pick out a lot of various smells faster than most people I've known. Certain odors (maybe it was something in particular that caused a reaction in the odor) also have triggered my migraines.

It doesn't have anything to do with my veganism directly.

There is an environmental impact of the land use for tobacco (I suspect there's quite a bit of pesticide use involved), plus that land could be used to grow food as opposed to tobacco. There's also the paper and filters, harvesting, processing, etc, plus the particulates and whatever else is released into the surrounding air (pollution). All this is non-negligible.

The same can be said of many things we use in life though. I try to be aware of the impact I cause and I try to minimize that impact, but I realize not everyone does care.
 

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Not anymore. But I did at one time. So I can explain why some veg*ns smoke: ADDICTION.

Edit to add evidence of my claim that smoking is addictive:
The US Center for Disease Control says:
"Nicotine is the psychoactive drug in tobacco products that produces dependence. Most smokers are dependent on nicotine. Nicotine dependence is the most common form of chemical dependence in the United States. Research suggests that nicotine is as addictive as heroin, cocaine, or alcohol."
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ting/index.htm

Mayo Clinic says:
"Nicotine is the chemical in tobacco that keeps you smoking. Nicotine is very addictive."
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/nic...SECTION=causes

The National Institute on Drug Abuse says:
"Like cocaine, heroin, and marijuana, nicotine increases levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine, which affects the brain pathways that control reward and pleasure. For many tobacco users, long-term brain changes induced by continued nicotine exposure result in addiction-a condition of compulsive drug seeking and use, even in the face of negative consequences. Studies suggest that additional compounds in tobacco smoke, such as acetaldehyde, may enhance nicotine's effects on the brain. A number of studies indicate that adolescents are especially vulnerable to these effects and may be more likely than adults to develop an addiction to tobacco. When an addicted user tries to quit, he or she experiences withdrawal symptoms including irritability, attention difficulties, sleep disturbances, increased appetite, and powerful cravings for tobacco."
http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/tobacco.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Originally Posted by ElaineV View Post

Not anymore. But I did at one time. So I can explain why some veg*ns smoke: ADDICTION.
I get that. Not everyone who smokes is addicted, though.
 

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I don't anymore, but I did when I was younger. (before I was veg*n)

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I don't smoke cigarettes lol.
Do you smoke anything else?
 

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Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

I get that. Not everyone who smokes is addicted, though.
But it leads to an addiction. I used to know a lot of "social smokers" now I know smokers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

No. I just find it disgusting. I'm sensitive to smells, as in really sensitive. I usually can pick out a lot of various smells faster than most people I've known. Certain odors (maybe it was something in particular that caused a reaction in the odor) also have triggered my migraines.

It doesn't have anything to do with my veganism directly.

There is an environmental impact of the land use for tobacco (I suspect there's quite a bit of pesticide use involved), plus that land could be used to grow food as opposed to tobacco. There's also the paper and filters, harvesting, processing, etc, plus the particulates and whatever else is released into the surrounding air (pollution). All this is non-negligible.

The same can be said of many things we use in life though. I try to be aware of the impact I cause and I try to minimize that impact, but I realize not everyone does care.
I didn't think of that, but isn't all our agriculture that way? I think the difference between being vegan and not smoking, and being vegan and smoking would be a negligible one considering that pretty much everything is grown that way, and we use so much crap. It's kind of unavoidable, and all one can hope to do is minimize, as you said, but I don't think there's a very wide margin. That being said, I like to avoid huge corporations anyway, but that's pretty much avoidable, too. Not to say that going to live in some secluded forest and making everything myself hasn't crossed my mind, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

No. I just find it disgusting. I'm sensitive to smells, as in really sensitive. I usually can pick out a lot of various smells faster than most people I've known. Certain odors (maybe it was something in particular that caused a reaction in the odor) also have triggered my migraines.

It doesn't have anything to do with my veganism directly.

There is an environmental impact of the land use for tobacco (I suspect there's quite a bit of pesticide use involved), plus that land could be used to grow food as opposed to tobacco. There's also the paper and filters, harvesting, processing, etc, plus the particulates and whatever else is released into the surrounding air (pollution). All this is non-negligible.

The same can be said of many things we use in life though. I try to be aware of the impact I cause and I try to minimize that impact, but I realize not everyone does care.
I didn't think of that, but isn't all our agriculture that way? I think the difference between being vegan and not smoking, and being vegan and smoking would be a negligible one considering that pretty much everything is grown that way, and we use so much crap. It's kind of unavoidable, and all one can hope to do is minimize, as you said, but I don't think there's a very wide margin. That being said, I like to avoid huge corporations anyway, but that's pretty much unavoidable, too. Not to say that going to live in some secluded forest and making everything myself hasn't crossed my mind, lol. It makes me sad that this what has become normal, and that it won't likely change, but I try not think about it since I don't want to be miserable all the time.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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I dunno, I don't see a reason to smoke unless you're addicted.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

I didn't think of that, but isn't all our agriculture that way?
It's true about the land impact, but then we can grow food to consume and sustain us or we can grow things to make us feel good (whether that turns out to be a flower garden, tobacco, lawn, etc). If humans are to convert land to our personal use, I'd just like more to be for growing food than simply to make us feel good. We're not the only ones on the planet after all.

To be clear, I'm critical of that aspect of humans, and not just singling you out personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

I think the difference between being vegan and not smoking, and being vegan and smoking would be a negligible one considering that pretty much everything is grown that way, and we use so much crap.
Meh. Everything we do, if not much is a drop in the bucket. It all adds up though.

Also, where does the tobacco you smoke (if you do) come from? Who is growing it and where is it growing? What kind of income are the farmers getting paid for it (ie is it fair trade?) and is it grown somewhere which has a water, food, land shortage? Are we adding to the subjugation of developing countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

It's kind of unavoidable, and all one can hope to do is minimize, as you said, but I don't think there's a very wide margin. That being said, I like to avoid huge corporations anyway, but that's pretty much unavoidable, too. Not to say that going to live in some secluded forest and making everything myself hasn't crossed my mind, lol. It makes me sad that this what has become normal, and that it won't likely change, but I try not think about it since I don't want to be miserable all the time.
I guess we're different, in that I do think about it and I feel I make better choices, more informed choices and if more people did, I think the world would be a hell of a lot better off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
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Originally Posted by nogardsram View Post

It's true about the land impact, but then we can grow food to consume and sustain us or we can grow things to make us feel good (whether that turns out to be a flower garden, tobacco, lawn, etc). If humans are to convert land to our personal use, I'd just like more to be for growing food than simply to make us feel good. We're not the only ones on the planet after all.

To be clear, I'm critical of that aspect of humans, and not just singling you out personally.

Meh. Everything we do, if not much is a drop in the bucket. It all adds up though.

Also, where does the tobacco you smoke (if you do) come from? Who is growing it and where is it growing? What kind of income are the farmers getting paid for it (ie is it fair trade?) and is it grown somewhere which has a water, food, land shortage? Are we adding to the subjugation of developing countries?

I guess we're different, in that I do think about it and I feel I make better choices, more informed choices and if more people did, I think the world would be a hell of a lot better off.
I see your point about being a little hedonistic, lol. You're right about that. Laziness on my part. And I've no idea where it is grown. Probably something I should look into. I'm not smoking now, because I don't have the money for it at this point, but when I get some income I most likely will be. That being said, I only smoke American Spirit. They're non-additive, organic, don't test on animals...all that jazz. I'd hope they'd be fair trade, as well.
 

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Herbivorous Urchin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delitebrite View Post

Well I do it to relax, and dent my lifespan a little.
There are other less disgusting ways to relax.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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Originally Posted by vegansarawr View Post

But it leads to an addiction. I used to know a lot of "social smokers" now I know smokers.
It can. But so can anything else. Cigarettes are only addictive because of the way nicotine stimulates the neurocenters in the brain, which is why people find it relaxing. It's the sensation that is addicting, therefore addiction to nicotine is purely a psychological addiction, not a physical one. You can become addicted in that sense to anything that causes a similar reaction in your brain, like ice cream. Your body won't try to kill you if you deprive it, it'll just make you cranky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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Originally Posted by River View Post

There are other less disgusting ways to relax.
Yep, but they don't also prevent me from living a long, healthy life, either. I do plenty of other things to relax, as well. I have tons of hobbies. I also like ballet and oil painting, which can both be disgusting, since ballet destroys your feet and joints, and the turpentine will destroy my lungs. Oh well.
 
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