Dieting...help please!

JoyFuLGurL7 · Jun 16, 2003

Lately, I've been feeling fairly insecure about my weight. When I was a freshmen in high school, my grandma passed away..making me very depressed and throughout the summer and the first half of my sophomore year, I gained soooo much weight. Now, my mom passed away a little less than a year ago, and I don't want to go to the same route...not only does it just depress me more, but it's very unhealthy. So, I need help. To lose weight at a nice pace, what shall I do? I've thought about cutting back on carbs (I eat soooo much pasta and bread, etc.) but I was wondering because I'm a vegan if this is such a good choice. Any tips or diet experiences that were successful would be great. And just so you know, I try and walk/jog/run at least 3 times a week with low impact weight lifting twice a week. I am fairly active, so I'm not so sure that's the problem. Thanks guys.

GhostUser · Jun 16, 2003

OK, this carbs thing is a pile of crap. How many times do I need to say it? YOU NEED TO EAT CARBS. In fact, about 50-55% of your diet should be carbs (the rest fat and protein). 
I don't know if you need to lose weight or not, but we should all aim to eat well. Here are some ideas. 
Whole grains are best - wholewheat pasta, brown rice, quinoa, whole wheat breads, millet, buckwheat, etc. If you love your white grains, have them in small amounts. For example, I love white rice, so I every Friday night, I have an unlimited amount for supper (usually about 2.5 cups worth). 
There is no limit on how many vegetables you should eat. Aim for at least 3, and go up from there. Spinach (folate), mixed green salads (iron, calcium), carrots (vit a), green peppers (vit c), etc 
You should eat 2-5 fruits daily. Considering they are candy-like, this isn't hard. Try having an apple (fibre) with your snacks. 
You need good sources of protein. Chickpeas and navy/white beans (iron, calcium, zinc) are great in 1/2 cup servings on top of a salad. Tofu (calcium, iron) is also a great source of protein. Nuts, seeds and their butters are great sources of many nutritents including omega-3 EFA (walnuts - helps w/ depression), calcium (almonds) and zinc (pumpkin seeds). 
Calcium helps you lose weight. Most studies were done with dairy, but there's no reason to not get your 1000mg of calcium from vegan sources. On top of all the foods I listed above, a smear of blackstrap molasses (iron, calcium), a glass of fortified soy milk (b12, vit d, zinc, calcium) and OJ w/ calcium (vit c, calcium) will all help top you over the 1000mg mark. 
Make sure you eat enough to keep your body moving and healthy!

JoyFuLGurL7 · Jun 16, 2003

Wow, thank you so much <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

"> That really helped a lot. I actually wasn't going to cut carbs out of my diet completely, so down a little...but I definately will take your advice. Feel free to add, if you forgot anything, but it doens't look like it..lol

GhostUser · Jun 16, 2003

<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/whack.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":whack:"> 
I forgot to add that for considering the carbs issue

GhostUser · Jun 17, 2003

I have been following the Fuhrman "Eat to Live" diet since May 1st and I highly recommend it. 
It is based on mostly fruits, veggies, & beans. The idea is you fill up on the most nutrient dense foods. The goal is to have 1lb of raw veggies, 1 pound of cooked veggies, and 4 fruits a day, plus a minimum of 1 cup of beans (although you are free to eat more.) I usually fill up way before I eat all the food but the plan is working for me. 
Grains and starches are limited to 1 cup a day or less while you are trying to lose weight. I found that limiting the grains has really been what has worked for me. I have usually had an impossible time losing weight, despite eating a low-fat vegetarian (mostly vegan) diet. 
You can also have a small amount of nuts everyday and are also encourage to take ground flaxseedon your salads, so it is not an entirely fat-phobic plan. You just eat the healthy fats you need and not added fat. 
I have already lost 7 pounds and I am also feeling so much healthier because I am eating so much more produce. Breakfast is ususlly fruit with flaxseed, lunch is a huge salad with beans, and dinner is usually cooked veggies, more salad, and fruit for dessert. 
I am never hungry and my hair & nails are so much healthier now too. 
This book was an eye-opener also, because it is chock full of nutrion info that is well-researched and well-cited. I find even when I slack off the diet, I am still eating way healthier than I used to because I am so much more conscious of eating more fruits & vegetables. They really should be the base of the diet. Not only are they nutritional powerhouses but they are naturally low in calories and the fiber really fills you up. 
This book/diet also gave me the impetus to finally go 100% vegan and not the 95% I used to be. I have no desire to consume cheese ever again.

GhostUser · Jun 17, 2003

I found the diet way too low in fat, as well as hideous expensive to follow the diet. 
I would starve on that diet. Sure, I'd lose weight, but that would be because I ended up eating my own arm in hunger.

JoyFuLGurL7 · Jun 17, 2003

I've thought about (and I know the diet you recommended wasn't this, so don't think I'm judging) the "Raw food" diet off and on. If I had the money, I might actually do it ...however, it's just so insanely bizzarre to follow you know? Like, the diet you suggested sounds really reasonable and very healthy, but eeating entirely raw food would just be sooo expensive and crazy. However, I do try to eat at least 4 completely raw food meals a week..and that's enough for now. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/grin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="

">

soilman · Jun 17, 2003

JoyFulGurl7 writes: "Any tips or diet experiences that were successful..." 
I'm male. I weighd 140 when I was 17, went up to 17x when I was 21. I decided to adopt a life-long diet that would enable me to maintain a weight of 145-50, instead of go on one diet to lose 20 pounds, then go on another to maintain my weight at 145-150. 
This worked out quite well. Weight-loss diets are, in my opinion, not usually a good idea. 
I just ate a balanced vegan diet, of grains, legumes, nuts, raw and cooked vegetables, starchy vegetables like taters and lots and lots and lots of fresh fruit, including fruit salads with nut-milk topping. 
I agree with kristadb that theer is no limit on how many leafy, stemmy, vegetable one can eat, tho potatoes, yams, manioc root and other starchy roots should be limited. Carrots you can have as many raw carrots as you want. I also think you can have as much melon and fruit as you want. You simply can't fit enough to these things in your stomach, without causing pain, to cause your weight to increase. 
you can eat plenty of nuts but -- well I can tell when I've had too many. 
I thoroughly disagree with Jadzia about filling up on the most nutrient-dense foods. The densest nutrient is oil. Therefore the most nutrient-dense foods are the ones with the most oil. The foods with the most oil are refined oils. I do not agree with the idea of sitting around drinking refined olive oil. But this would be the logical conclusion from Jadzia's recommendation about filling up on nutrient-dense foods. 
Grains and other starches can be used in moderation. Legumes tend to be self-limiting as you get digestive symtoms if you eat too much. I would completely avoid sweetened starches such as cookies and cakes. Or eat them only in occaisional small portions, and not every day. But it is often hard to limit oneself to a small portion, so it might be better to stay away. 
I think rice and couscous and other plain grains are a much better choice than fungal infected grains -- ie: bread. I'd eat bread in moderation, if at all. Tho corn tortillas are not fungal infected, no yeast is used. I think you can have corn tortillas in moderation.

VegAnna · Jun 17, 2003

I think with nutrient dense she meant that the vit&min/fiber/protein ration vs. calories is much better. We did a nutrient-density lab in our nutrition class last quarter and the most nutrient dense foods were NOT the oily ones.

MisaLady · Jun 17, 2003

Jadzia- you can eat more beans, or of all of the foods you mentioned?

soilman · Jun 17, 2003

VegAnna writes: 
=============== 
I think with nutrient dense she meant... 
============= 
How do you know what she meant? I try to determine what people mean -- by what they say. I don't have good mind-reading abilities. 
Oil is a nutrient. In terms of calories, it is the densest nutrient. 
On earth, mass is synonymous with weight. Nutrient density means mass of nutrients per mass of food. It doesn't mean mass of micronutrients per mass of food, or mass of minerals per mass of food, or mass of vitamins per mass of food. Nutrient density means nutrient density, not micro-nutrient density. If she had meant micronutrient density, she would have said micro-nutrient density, wouldn't she? Rather than said nutrient density? 
If she meant something else she should have said something else. 
Actually, my definition of nutrient density in my previous post was incorrect. But so is yours 
It is really very simple: you weigh the food, then you weigh all the nutrients in the food, then you calculate the weight of the nutrients divided by the total weight. Besides nutrients, the other things in food are water, non-digestible fiber, and small bits of clay and sand. 
If you discount water, then you weight the nutrients and you way everything else but the water, and then you divide the nutrients by the total weight. 
If you you want to suggest that people eat foods that are micro-nutrient dense, you should say micro-nutrient -dense, not nutrient-dense. I can't read people's mind and guess that they mean micro-nutrient-dense when they say nutrient-dense.

soilman · Jun 17, 2003

And insoluble undigestible fiber is not a nutrient. It has no nutritive value. It passes through the digestive system without being absorbed except for a very small amount of it which may be chemically altered by gut-living micro-organisms, possibly, and then can be digested by us. I'd guess about 99 percent of it passes thru without being absorbed thru the gastro-intestinal tract into the blood stream. It only has value as a digestive aid. Plus, it helps with the absorbtion of some nutrients, but interferes with the absorbtion of others. Nutrients, on the other hand -- most if not all of the amount you eat gets into your blood stream.

GhostUser · Jun 17, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally posted by MisaLady Jadzia- you can eat more beans, or of all of the foods you mentioned?</div>
</div>
 
You can eat unlimited quantities of raw & cooked veggies, beans, and fruit. To lose weight you should limit your consumption of starches (grains, squash, cooked carrots) to more than 1 cup of day. You should also eat some ground flax seed daily (I sprinkle mine on fruit or salads) and also have a small amount (1-2 ounces) of nuts. 
Your goal is to eat 1 lb. or raw veggies and 1 lb. of cooked veggies perday, 4 fruits, and at least 1 cup of beans. I can never eat close to all the food, but the great thing on this diet is that I am never hungry. I think filling up on all the low-calorie veggies is part of it, but I think also limiting the starches is a big help. It is easy to over-eat starchy foods and they are pretty dense with calories. So now instead of serving my entrees over a huge plate of pasta or rice, I am serving them over a huge plate of leafy greens. 
The weight is really coming off!

GhostUser · Jun 17, 2003

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">The densest nutrient is oil.</div>
</div>
 
Huh? Oil is fat-dense and calorie-dense but there isn't much nutritive value in oil. You're better off eating the original olive with its natural phytochemicals intact than just eating the processed oil. 
And yes, of course I am talking about micro-nutrients not macro-nutrients (fat, protein, or carbs). Oil is 100% fat. The fat provided by oil is not a nutrient most people are lacking. 
Vegetables and fruit are literally chock full of protective compounds that protect us from disease. Scientists haven't even identified all the substances in plant food that are good for us yet. Every time they isolate something (like beta-carotene) and then try to launch it in a supplement form, people do not reap the benefits as when they do by eating the food in its natural state.

rainbowmoon · Jun 17, 2003

to be honest with you, JoyfulGirl, I think the best thing is to develop a healthy diet and follow it. Fad diets or diet "plans" rarely work for me because as soon as you go off the diet and attempt to eat normally, you gain all the weight back, or at least some of it. Maybe diet plans do work for some people, but my thoughts on the matter are that it is best to learn to eat healthfully and in the right caloric amounts, then, any excess weight will come off slowly and gradually. 
lovenlight, 
linz

MisaLady · Jun 17, 2003

Jadzia - thanks! I'm very interested in this - last summer/fall, I lost 50 pounds doing low-carb, but low-carb is generally very meaty and also brings out depression (lowers seritonin). And I hated not being able to have fruit. 
So I said the heck with it all, and went back to eating pretty much whatever. The problem is, I have a disorder which is helped by low-carb, although I know it can be helped in other ways to. 
The program you mentioned may work really well for me. I've already reserved the book from the library - thanks again!

bethanie · Jun 17, 2003

amen to what soilman and kristab had to say! I'd add something about the grief you must be experiencing. Do you think your urge to 'diet' may have something to do with the grief you are experiencing? I'm just wondering if it has something to do with you wanting to 'have control' when your loved one's deaths have probably made you feel so...well helpless and like life is somewhat random and out of control. I'm asking because you have mentioned that your weightloss attempts seem to center around you having to experience death and loss. 
Do you need to loose weight? I'm just curious...if so how much? My suggestion would not be to get on a 'diet' as in what soilman said...a weight loss diet. But to simply eat a healthy diet (many of us do know what that means), and to exercise moderately. 
Btw, I am so sorry about the loss you've experienced. 
B

JoyFuLGurL7 · Jun 17, 2003

I am definately not looking for a fad diet, but yes, just a healthy nutritional food pattern I can stick to for a very, very, very long time. Everyone's suggestions are great, I just need to put them to use. Thanks for your condolensces by the wa. But anyways, I guess I will try and stick to what I've been doing...though I slip and eat something horrible occassionally. This is basically what I eat (with slight variations): 
Bfast-1 serving of oatmeal, juice and an apple or banana 
Lnch: PB&J sandwich or lettuce, tomato, and shredded carrots with mustard sandwich, handful of pretzels, a pickel (I know they're not good or bad for you, I just love em!), and water. 
snack: More fruit, occassionally some vegan cookies or grahm crackers. 
Dinner: usually, this is where I go wrong....it's so hard for me to find fufilling meals that are cheap, so sometimes I eat unhealthy pizza (w/out cheese of course) or pasta (not whole-grain, cuz I know that's much better for you).....I usually feel gross afterwards, I just need to make sure I have SOMETHING good to make for this time period.

GhostUser · Jun 17, 2003

My dear, you really don't eat a lot. 
Try adding another 2 servings of fruit, 3 servings of veggies, 1 bean serving (1/2 cup), 3 servings of calcium, and 1 serving of nuts/seeds 3tbsp size, sprinkled on a salad for exmaple). I think that will help a lot with the supper issue. 
There is nothing wrong with pasta, even white pasta. The problem is the portion size. Measure out 1 cup cooked pasta sometime for a visualization. That is 2 servings of grain. You need around 6-8. 
And really, cheeseless pizza isn't necessarily bad for you. It's kinda neutral food. Some fibre, some grains, some tomato, no protein, minimial fat.

soilman · Jun 17, 2003

Jadzia writes: 
=============== 
Huh? Oil is fat-dense and calorie-dense but there isn't much nutritive value in oil. 
=============== 
Huh-huh? Oil is a nutrient. (Saying oil is fat-dense is like saying lumber is wood-dense). One of the nutrients we require in our diet is -- oil. Oil is 100 percent oil. 100 percent is as dense as you can get. You can't have more nutrient density, that is, you can't have more nutritive value, than that. 
Many foods are rather low in nutrient value, but are still good foods. For example raw coconut meat is about 9 percent fiber. Fiber is not a nutrient but a digestive processing aid. Plus it is about 1 percent ash. Making it only 90 percent nutrients, 90 percent nutrient-dense. Right? You use 90 percent of it and dump out the rest. <a href="http://www.rahul.net/cgi-bin/fatfree/usda/usda-l0.cgi?NUTSx%20COCONUT%20MEAT,%20RAW" target="_blank">http://www.rahul.net/cgi-bin/fatfree...%20MEAT,%20RAW</a> 
Olive oil is close to 100 percent oil. <a href="http://www.rahul.net/cgi-bin/fatfree/usda/usda-l0.cgi?OILx%20OLIVE,%20SALAD%20OR%20COOKING" target="_blank">http://www.rahul.net/cgi-bin/fatfree...20OR%20COOKING</a> 
==================== 
And yes, of course I am talking about micro-nutrients not macro-nutrients (fat, protein, or carbs). Oil is 100% fat. The fat provided by oil is not a nutrient most people are lacking. 
================== 
The fact that many people are not lacking oil in their diet, doesn't mean that it is not a nutrient, it just means that it is not a nutrient they are lacking. 
Saying that because "most" people are not lacking oil in their diet, that oil is not a nutrient, is like saying that because most lumber yards are not lacking in lumber, then lumber is not a building material. 
If most lumber yards were not lacking in lumber, but their inventory of nails and screws was low, would that mean that nails and screws were building materials, but lumber was not a building material? And as a result of this inventory imbalance, if you say "building materials" should I assume you are talking about nails and screws, and aren't talking about lumber? If I go to the lumber yard and fill my pickup truck with 210 pounds of lumber and no nails and screws, is the cargo area of my pickup truck less "building-material-dense" than if I pickup 200 pounds of lumber and 10 pounds of nails and screws? 
There is no reason for anyone to think that because most people are not lacking oil in their diet, that you must be talking about "micro-nutrients" when you say "nutrients." That would be like saying that because most lumber yards are not lacking in lumber, than I must be talking about nails and screws when I say building materials, and not talking about lumber. If you say nutrients I assume you mean nutrients, I don't assume that you mean macronutrients, and I don't assume that you mean micronutrients, I assume you mean nutrient in general -- both macronutrients and micronutrients. 
And by the way, macronutrients are no less important in the diet than micronutrients. Just like lumber is no less important to framing a house than nails and screws.

Dieting...help please!

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