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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys!<br><br>
I've been having this same discussion, it seems, for months with my friends IRL. Mercola keeps getting brought up as some kind of hero when it comes to nutrition, and he is SERIOUSLY anti-soy (unless it's fermented). It seems most of his arguments against soy are related to non-GMO soy, and soy protein isolate (and other highly processed soy products), but he also seems to have issues with tofu, soymilk, and edamame...<br><br>
My general response so far has been that I don't listen to anything Mercola has to say, but that doesn't seem to be enough for these people.<br><br>
I am also in training, and my protein requirements are rather high - if not soy, what are my options (vegan)?
 

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Quinoa<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> And who the hell is Mercola?
 

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Amaranth?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sequoia</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925143"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Quinoa<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)"> And who the hell is Mercola?</div>
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Dr. Joseph Mercola. Most of what he talks about is decent nutritional advice, but he seems to have a real hate-on for soy.<br><br><a href="http:" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uIn2L90wA8</a>
 

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He should go preach to people in East Asia then. I'm sure they'd be interested to know that one of their dietary staples is actually poison to them.
 

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Wait, isn't this the same dude who asserts that autism is linked to pasteurized milk? And vaccines? And root vegetables?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
yup.
 

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Mercola isn't just anti-soy. He's anti-vegetarian. I remember him saying something about how he tried to eat a vegetarian diet but found when he ate just fruit for breakfast, his triglycerides sky rocketed. He claimed that they were dangerously high, and then dramatically stated that if he had continued to eat that way he was certain he would have died. I'm serious. He claims eating fruit will kill you.<br><br>
I have read that if you don't measure your triglycerides on an empty stomach, the readings will be inaccurately high. Mercola is supposed to be a doctor though, so how could he not know this? IMO, he's either a manipulative liar or a complete quack. Either way he claims that eating too much fruit will kill you. I have never heard anyone say anything like that before in my life. I do not care what that idiot has to say about ANYTHING.
 

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He may be right about GM soy, but it makes no sense to demonize all soy based on some GM soy studies. It's just a bean for crying out loud. My advice is to keep eating non-GM soy and let everyone else live in Soy Paranoia Land.
 

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I've always referred to him as Dr. Quack, Quack Mercola. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/tongue3.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":p">
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>sequoia</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925160"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
He should go preach to people in East Asia then. I'm sure they'd be interested to know that one of their dietary staples is actually poison to them.</div>
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Not defending him but they usually eat fermented soy and it's usually a condiment.
 

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Um. No? Soy milk and tofu (like the wobbly stuff you get in cartons from Sunrise) are very commonly eaten in Asian cultures. Soy milk is a staple beverage. In China proper, it's salted. When I was in Taiwan/HK, tofu wasn't a "veg*n's" dish, it was everywhere and in anything - desserts, entrees, side dishes, appetizers, whatever. Ground beef and silken tofu was a common dish and my mother used to make this as one of our communal dishes at dinner. My aunt's favourite dessert is douhua, which is a silken tofu broiled in ginger-infused sugar syrup - this is very popular in Taiwan.<br><br>
Uh, basically, soy is not a condiment, at least in Chinese culture, to my experience of my culture. It's basically treated like any other veggie.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Doktormartini</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925266"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Not defending him but they usually eat fermented soy and it's usually a condiment.</div>
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No. Not sure why people seem to think this, but it isn't true.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>luxdancer</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925279"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Um. No? Soy milk and tofu (like the wobbly stuff you get in cartons from Sunrise) are very commonly eaten in Asian cultures. Soy milk is a staple beverage. In China proper, it's salted. When I was in Taiwan/HK, tofu wasn't a "veg*n's" dish, it was everywhere and in anything - desserts, entrees, side dishes, appetizers, whatever. Ground beef and silken tofu was a common dish and my mother used to make this as one of our communal dishes at dinner. My aunt's favourite dessert is douhua, which is a silken tofu broiled in ginger-infused sugar syrup - this is very popular in Taiwan.<br><br>
Uh, basically, soy is not a condiment, at least in Chinese culture, to my experience of my culture. It's basically treated like any other veggie.</div>
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<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/yes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":yes:">
 

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Randy -<br><br>
have you looked at the vegan bodybuilder's forum for ideas about diets for training?<br><br>
if you want to use supplemental protein, there are non soy powders. I have purchased pea protein, rice protein, hemp protein, and I just purchased a container of pumpkin seed protein (which I'd never seen before - I haven't tried it yet, but the person in the store raved about it).<br><br>
I don't believe the negative hype about soy, but in general I try not to over-use any one food so I like to mix it up a little.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>WonderRandy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925135"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My general response so far has been that I don't listen to anything Mercola has to say, but that doesn't seem to be enough for these people.</div>
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I find it interesting that people will readily quote someone, without researching the validity of that person's claim (like Mercola). It's sad that we, as vegans, have to show others critical thinking and research and debunk a claim (with little support). <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/sad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":("><br><br>
There are a few things I hate and Mercola is one of those.<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>WonderRandy</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925135"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I am also in training, and my protein requirements are rather high - if not soy, what are my options (vegan)?</div>
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Why? What kind of training are you doing? What amino acids do you feel you're not getting enough of? Do you do any of the nutrition counters (online) to get a general sense of your nutrient intake?
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Spoonerism</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925168"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Mercola isn't just anti-soy. He's anti-vegetarian. I remember him saying something about how he tried to eat a vegetarian diet but found when he ate just fruit for breakfast, his triglycerides sky rocketed. He claimed that they were dangerously high, and then dramatically stated that if he had continued to eat that way he was certain he would have died. I'm serious. He claims eating fruit will kill you.<br><br>
I have read that if you don't measure your triglycerides on an empty stomach, the readings will be inaccurately high. Mercola is supposed to be a doctor though, so how could he not know this? IMO, he's either a manipulative liar or a complete quack. Either way he claims that eating too much fruit will kill you. I have never heard anyone say anything like that before in my life. I do not care what that idiot has to say about ANYTHING.</div>
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well, believe it or not, Dr John McDougall also talks about this in his book. Apparently, some people are much more sensitive to the fruit fructose, which in some people can send the triglycerides shooting upwards. He doesn't talk about it killing people, but the numbers will be elevated.<br><br>
I have Mercola on my FB, and I've been involved in some really pretty heated debates. He is totally anti vaccine, but he plays it off as being anti vaccine schedule, not the vaccines themselves. I do like his stance on HFCS, which I totally agree with, and have learned about McD's using meat from up to 30 different countries in a batch of meat being processed. I don't take much of what he says with more than a grain of salt, but some stuff is interesting, or at least gets you thinking
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Irizary</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925330"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Randy -<br><br>
have you looked at the vegan bodybuilder's forum for ideas about diets for training?<br><br>
if you want to use supplemental protein, there are non soy powders. I have purchased pea protein, rice protein, hemp protein, and I just purchased a container of pumpkin seed protein (which I'd never seen before - I haven't tried it yet, but the person in the store raved about it).<br><br>
I don't believe the negative hype about soy, but in general I try not to over-use any one food so I like to mix it up a little.</div>
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Yep. I'm actually reading through the forums there now. My challenge with non-soy protein powders is that they're a LOT more expensive (I know, there's a reason soy is so flipping cheap)... I'm a starving actor these days, so every penny counts. But I'm about to pull the trigger on a soy free blend from trueprotein.com. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nogardsram</strong> <a href="/forum/post/2925337"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Why? What kind of training are you doing? What amino acids do you feel you're not getting enough of? Do you do any of the nutrition counters (online) to get a general sense of your nutrient intake?</div>
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I'm working with a trainer on a specialized program that incorporates a high-protein, low-carb diet (I really don't want to debate the merits of this diet approach at this time). The program is NOT vegan friendly, and I'm being encouraged to use whey or egg-white protein, which is simply NOT going to happen... So I'm having to work out my own alternatives.
 

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what about seitan Randy? It's all protein. I know I've read on his bodybuilding site, and I actually have his book too, about the different pea and hemp proteins,and that combos taste better. The Vega brand is very expensive,and I haven't bought any, but there are other veg proteins available besides soy as you know.<br><br><br>
Oh yeah, if you are into Facebook, you can friend Robert and like his book page. He's very interactive on the stuff he posts, and his book is continuing to rise in Amazon's rankings. He also is working out with some famous people like Brendon Brazier who is his friend anyway, and Bob from Biggest Loser.....I told him to tell Bob that eggs weren't vegan.....hehe
 
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