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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi! I'm having a debate competition at school soon. I am for vegetarianism, and I'm debating against this guy (who is awesome at debating) who is against it. Does anyone have any ideas of things I could say, or points I could make to win the debate? I really want my classmates to see that vegetarianism is a good thing! Thanks!
 

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Ok, this may sound odd, but don't go for the animal rights perspective. Try to debate how it is not necessary to eat meat in order to gain adequate nutrition.<br><br><br><br>
Oh yeah, a while ago, I posted something about the ultimate in anti-vegetarian essays, and I pretty much gave the article the verbal finger. Reading that should prepare you for the worst.
 

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study this:<br><br><a href="http://ar.vegnews.org/" target="_blank">http://ar.vegnews.org/</a><br><br>
And Loki-<br><br>
I don't remember your post about that. If you could find the link, that would be nice.<br><br>
Read lots of books and websites to get really familiar with the material. Think of one main central point you want to argue, and don't let the other guy get off topic, don't argue with irrelevent arguments, stay with your central point.
 

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Yes, absolutely do NOT get emotional. That's the worst thing you can do with debates. Go for the environmental as well as health aspect. Have very solid facts (i.e. don't just take what one website tells you as gospel, find as many sources as possible that say the same thing). Thalia is right, don't let him get off topic (for example he may try and bring up the "sentimental" aspect, if he does, just lightly dismiss it as nice personal reason but hardly the main argument, as much as it may pain you to do it. If you can come across as more reasonable and in control of the facts than him then you've won.) If you can twist the sentimental card against him (if he brings it up) go for it, it's also about politely discrediting what the other person says...
 

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I would play up the environmental aspect.<br><br><br><br>
And.. the exact statistic excapes me, but the fact that if Americans reduced meat intake by 10%, with the grain saved, no one would have to starve to death this year.
 

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A lot of his arguments are likely to be nutritional (inadequate protein, B12). Make sure you can prove why nutritionally veg*n diets are more than adequate.
 

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<a href="http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4982" target="_blank">http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/s...&threadid=4982</a> is where you'll find my response to the ultimate in anti-veg articles. It doesn't hold up too good, mainly because I'm not having huge wads of cash shoved in my face to motivate me to do some proper research.<br><br><br><br>
Anyhow, you should go for a logical rather than emotional argument. But here's a list of questions you might get and possible answers:<br><br><br><br>
Eating meat is natural/We are natural omnis - This is right. We are omnivores. We have the capability to ingest and digest both animal and plant matter. However, we are free to pick and choose what we eat. It isn't necessary to eat meat unless you are in a situation where you must for survival, such as being stuck on a desert island. Humans are capable of living without eating animals.<br><br><br><br>
Our ancestors ate meat - Our ancestors also live in caves. Simply because the humans of yesterday ate meat does not mean that todays humans must.<br><br><br><br>
Are your shoes leather? - If they are, you can say "yes. I got these before I went vegetarian. I'm not one to waste though. The next pair I get won't be" If they aren't just say "no"<br><br><br><br>
Protein is inadequate in vegetarian diets - In a vegetarian diet, animal foods such as eggs and dairy contain protein. But evenwithout eggs and dairy, you can get protein. In the USDA food pyramid, nuts and beans are also in the protein group. You can get protein from soy products, grains, legumes, nuts and in almost everything. Furthermore, you need only 50 grams of protein a day. This is very easy for anyone to get.<br><br><br><br>
But plants don't provide complete proteins/You'll need to combine foods to get all the amino acids - Dairy and eggs provide complete protein. In the plant kingdom, quinoa (Pronounced keen-wa) and soy are complete proeins. In the 70's, mainstream belief was that you needed to combine foods to get protein, but it is now recognised that as long as you eat a varied diet, which isn't hard because food is bland when you eat the same thing every meal, you will get all your amino acids.<br><br><br><br>
Meat is a superior source of protein - This is true. meat is the muscle tissue of animals, and is therefore comprised of protein, and all the amino acids you need, in the right proportions. However, you can get adequate from a vegetarian diet, and most people eat too much protein, a long term consumption of extra protein puts a load on the kidneys, leading to renal problems.<br><br><br><br>
The Vitamin B12 issue - Most vegetarians will get B12 from dairy and eggs. For vegans, fortified foods and supplements will provide it, as it can be synthesized nowadays.<br><br><br><br>
Supplements/fortification isn't natural - It isn't. Neither is most of the food you see on the shelf of an average supermarket.<br><br><br><br>
Years ago, you wouldn't have been able to be vegan because supplements don't exist - However, we've advanced since then, and now it is possible to use them. (Obvious, but this question does get asked.)<br><br><br><br>
Where do vegans get calcium from? - Our society is told that milk is a good source of calcium. And it is. However, what we are neglected to be told is that other foods do contain calcium. Hardly anyone knows that a pound garlic will provide you with your daily anount of calcium. Also, foods like broccoli and beans are neglected. Then there's always the good ol' calcium fortified OJ.<br><br><br><br>
Vegetarians don't get enough iron/vegeterians are susceptible to anemia - Green leafy vegetables are full of iron. Spinach is full of iron, but all that does is goes in one end and out the other, but other green leafy veg are full of iron. 100g of quinoa provides 97% RDA for iron. Also, an increase in ascorbic acids (i.e. Vitamin C) aids iron absorption. Vitamin C is found in fruit and vegetables, which veg*ns eat all the time.<br><br><br><br>
The mice, little creatures in the fields get killed by farming. - However, in much of the agricultural process, most is fed to animals. If we were not to raise animals for livestock, we'd grow less crops, reducing the amount of smaller animals killed. It's not completely preventable, but lower<br><br><br><br>
Plants feel pain - They have no central nervous system. Plants have the ability to react to the natural environment, but these are not processed through a brain or otherwise processed in a way that cutting a plant would be registered as pain.<br><br><br><br>
God put animals on earth to eat. - Delving deep into religion, this one, so make sure you remember genesis chapter 1, verse 26. It's right at the start of the book, and it says that God gave un "dominion" over animals. This is not the same as domination. Dominion means responsibility. For instance, the queen has dominion over England. But she doesn't kill her subjects and eat them.<br><br><br><br>
If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they mad efrom meat? - This is a dumb question. Since you're going up against a master debater, you're unlikely to get this one. but just say that humans are also made out of meat. So are cats and dogs.<br><br><br><br>
PETA is a terrorist organisation - PETA does not speak for the majority of vegetarians. Just a few extremists<br><br><br><br>
There you go. You've got some shields. Here's the ammo:<br><br><br><br>
It's not necessary to eat meat to meet your nutritional guidelines, so I believe that it is better not to eat it, because you can survive without it, and also because you are contributing less to killing animals.<br><br><br><br>
We are very removed from what goes into our food today. Very few people routinely bother questioning what they eat. Most people would be vegetarian, if they had to kill and cook the animal themselves. I choose not to eat meat because I am aware of where it comes from and I do not agree with it.<br><br><br><br>
Avoiding meat means you are less susceptible to food poisoning. Four out of five cases of food poisoning are as a result of undercooked meat. There are other diseases such as e-coli and salmonella which from animal foods.<br><br><br><br>
And here's soe general advice<br><br><br><br>
Keep confident. If you find it hard to be confident, practice with a friend or something like that. In a debate, confidence can make all the difference.<br><br><br><br>
Stay calm. - If you get pissed off, hold it in. If you get all angry, and shout, then people will make the wrong connections. If you offer a good, civilised, and intelligent debate, then people will be more open to vegetarianism, and won't see it as crazy if you manage to come across as normal rather than as a militant extremist. Keep in mind that the audience will percieve you one way or another. make sure their perception of you is positive. This will keep the debate going well.<br><br><br><br>
Good luck! I've never had any really good debates, other than "Would the new star wars triology have been as sucessful if it didn't have natalie portman." so I may not be the best of people to give advice, but I know all about vegetarianism.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Whoa thats a whole lot of typing loki!!<br><br><br><br>
The one thing ive learnt from debates is that its best not to make personal attacks at the person whom you are debating against.<br><br><br><br>
Like instead of saying "Im probably going to live longer than you because i dont eat meat" Say "Most vegetarians live longer than meat eaters" Because that way your less likely to offend the other person, and also its less likely the opposition will use personal attacks as well.. Which will leave you feeling better then an arguement of back and forward personal attacks..<br><br><br><br><span style="color:#FFA500;">Danny</span>
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Anything that spares lives, leads a healthier life style and has all around less negetive impact on the earth is better then a meat eating diet. which to say has a negative impact and destroy's life. i dunno thats all i can add
 

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I'm sorry, but I do think that it is important to get to the animal suffering issues. This is what got me here today. I compared it to the Holocaust, to Saddam Husseins torture of his people, etc. I would definitely include it. People don't know that these things are going on. Please read these articles and include a few sentences about them. They ARE important.<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.hfa.org/hot_topic/wash_post.html" target="_blank">http://www.hfa.org/hot_topic/wash_post.html</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.upc-online.org/slaughter/report.html" target="_blank">http://www.upc-online.org/slaughter/report.html</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.hsus.org/ace/18892" target="_blank">http://www.hsus.org/ace/18892</a><br><br><br><br>
Personally, I think that Loki has great scientific points. However, I had heard all of these points before, and it didn't make a darn bit of difference to me. These articles did. They are current and they are done by very respected sources.<br><br><br><br>
Tell me how you think anyone can argue that killing over 30,000 spent chickens by throwing them into a wood chipper is OK. I think that her opponent will have a hard time arguing this without looking like a complete as**ole. I was a champion debator in High School, and didn't do to badly in persuasive speeches in college. The way to convince people to be on your side IS to hit them in the morals. Once they are outraged, it is hard to look like a decent person when arguing the immoral stance.<br><br><br><br>
How will your opponant possibly defend against The Washington Posts investigation that shows that some cattle are completely aware even as they are gutted and skinned? How can he possibly combat the fact that live chickens are boiled so that you can eat some McNuggets? How can she respond to debeaking? These are the best arguments. Hell, put up a few photos, and let your opponent take those on.<br><br><br><br>
I understand why people are hesitant to bring moral consience into debate, but some of the greatest speeches and debates given in our history come from not a scientific stand, but from a moral one. (remember "ask not what your country can do, but what you can do for your country"?)<br><br><br><br>
Take the moral ground. Remind your audience that it took one person walking a personal walk to change history. Bring up Rosa Parks, Abraham Lincoln, Oskar Schindler, Ghandi. These people understood that change only comes through the following of moral concience, and that without that following the status quo remains. Tell you audience that each person who says, "no" to meat, tells the large corporations that their policies are unacceptable.<br><br><br><br>
Yes, put in the scientific reasons as to why it is healthy and fully nutritional to eat meat. But close with a reason why you, YOU PERSONALLY, don't eat it. You will come out looking like you are walking on the higher moral ground, and your opponent will flounder trying to say that these industrial standards are OK.<br><br><br><br>
I have a lot of life experience. I have argued on both sides of the existence of God, of the reasons TO eat meat, and even as a person who is pro-choice, I have successfully argued the pro-life point of view. It is your opponent who will want to argue the science (which is what I did in the pro-life stance). He/she will want to keep you away from the pain and suffering because they will have no way to argue against it.<br><br><br><br>
Good Luck. Go with your heart. That is always the strongest way.
 

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"Yes, put in the scientific reasons as to why it is healthy and fully nutritional to eat meat"<br><br><br><br>
sorry - to NOT eat meat.
 

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Oh, and ask them if that bucket of Kentucky Fried is really worth this......<br><br><br><br><a href="http://www.alv.org.au/rescues/0302broiler/0302broiler.htm" target="_blank">http://www.alv.org.au/rescues/0302br...302broiler.htm</a>
 

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A few points to add to loki's stuff...<br><br><br><br>
Studies have shown that too much protein actually leaches calcium from the bones. When consuming calcium rich foods it is better to avoid protein. Since milk is a good source of both calcium and protein, it would seem as though the protein cancels the calcium out (find resources for this, I'm just going on what I've read).<br><br><br><br>
If he says that plant-based iron isn't absorbed as easily as animal-based protein, counter with the argument that concuming Vit C with the plant-based iron foods increases absorption.<br><br><br><br>
I still advise against the heavily emotional argument. If you can be "objective" (stupid word) about animal cruelty then use it, but if you are going to get fired up don't. Most likely if you bring it up he will try and paint you as a weak emotional "feminine" person (even if you are a guy) while he is a reasoned, rational "male". Is it okay to drop live chickens into wood chippers? A rational argument says that animals are lower than humans, and while that part of it is cruel and unnecessary, a humane death is okay. He may even agree with you on some cruelty aspects while saying that that has nothing to do with the actual meat-eating VS veg diet. It does, of course, but if he's as good as you say he could easily win that argument.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Equipro, you associate it with the holocost just as i do! its great to find another who thinkgs that. on the cannabisculture website when i said that i got flamed for like 8 pages becuase i said i compare meat eating to hitler's regime.thoughtless killing and such.
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block"><i>Originally posted by BroadwayStar</i><br><br><b>or points I could make to win the debate?</b></div>
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Debate is not about winning or loosing.<br><br><br><br>
Tips: At some point the other will try to make you look stupid.<br><br>
Don't respond to it. When they will attack you in a strange way, remeber that they do it because they can't argue your points in a resonable way.<br><br><br><br>
When they say that your view is "extreme", say that that only is a statement that explains that your view and their view is very different but it doesn't say anything about your point.
 

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BroadwayStar - why are YOU veg*n? You will suceed the most if you argue from a position in which YOU feel the most commited. Trust me when I tell you that more people will be convinced if you horrify them than if you just give 'em the facts. It is part of human nature. There are so many things in human past which you can use to prove your point.<br><br><br><br>
If, for you, the main reason that you don't eat meat is because of suffering and inhumanity, than this must be your focus. If you eat meat because it is unhealthy, then this must be your focus.<br><br><br><br>
You have so many tools to argue it either way. Keep in mind that large industries use all tools they can to brainwash people into their way of thinking. The tobacco companies favorite tool to win debates is to say 1) is isn't harmful 2) it isn't addictive 3) if it is addictive then it isn't harmful 4)those aren't the real issues 5)we have nothing to do with any of that, and most importantly 6) they are all nuts, whiners and complainers.<br><br><br><br>
If your opponent tries to paint you as feminine or irrational, it is the easiest thing to overcome. Simply point out that when people are uncomfortable with the real facts, the best way to dismiss their opponents is to portray them as irrational or incompitent.<br><br><br><br>
No matter how good your opponent is, if you argue from your heart you will be the happiest with yourself. Look at your own reasons for being veg*n. Pinpoint how you found yourself on that path. Try to remember the things that influenced you. I disagree with the others above. I give them credit for being well informed and that is important, but you can not avoid emotion on an emotional issue. In order to reach peoples hearts you first have to open those hearts up.<br><br><br><br>
Best of all, do what is in YOUR heart.
 

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LOL Here we are debating how to debate.<br><br><br><br>
BroadwayStar, I think you should be able to pick what suits you best from this. Good luck!
 

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I don't know if you were looking for THIS tip, but if I would be you....<br><br><br><br>
....I would quickly loose and get the hell out of there. I'd never have gotten into this debate in the first place.<br><br><br><br>
Yes - my tip is damage control. Because there will be damage - veg*nism will get some serious bashing there, especially if your "opponent" is as good as you say, and your audience is made up of meat eaters.<br><br><br><br>
There is NO way you're going to "win" this.<br><br><br><br>
It's simply too easy to pick on veg*ns, the self-righteous arguments of meat-eaters are too damn tempting to believe if you are a meat eater yourself. It's like the dark side of the force, LOL.<br><br><br><br>
You could just as well try to debate democracy in front of Saddam's parliament!<br><br><br><br>
Besides, I would not debate my lifestyle with some random stranger in front of random strangers, especially if it's the DEBATE that counts. That just trivializes veg*nism.<br><br><br><br>
Veg*nism should not be something that gets debated in one afternoon and is being decided upon, based mainly on the "performance" of the debaters - and the bias of the audience. It's more important than that.<br><br><br><br>
And I don't want to see it as something where I have "opponents" I have to "defeat". I want to win people over, not defeat them.<br><br><br><br>
I think one could better promote veg*nism in school by doing presentations about it and such. And of course, by setting a good example by being a healthy, intelligent and yes, outspoken veg*n.<br><br><br><br>
Use your creative energy elsewhere instead of wasting it for this "debate". It simply does not sound like a good investment of resources to me!<br><br><br><br>
My 2 cents. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/images/smilies/smiley.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title=":)">
 

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another tip<br><br><br><br>
tyr to pre-empt what they will argue and then think of a counter-argument.<br><br><br><br>
So for instance he will most likely bring up the possible nutrional defiencies eg: iron, b12 etc.<br><br><br><br>
It would be good if you could come up with statistics on iron/b12 defiencies of meat eaters too.<br><br><br><br>
Hope that helps, let me know how you go.
 
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